Lapping in the Rain
Lapping in the Rain Today was a learning experience. It was an all day lapping session at Pacific. Igor(Longdaddy) was there with his Z06.
I was in the "fast" or "experienced" group along with Igor and another Z06. The first session of the day the track was a mess. Standing water in numerous places. A clear warning NOT to hit triple digit speeds on the front straight and to drive as if on eggshells everywhere else. The warnings were fully merited. For example, normally I can turn-in to turn 2 at 65-70mph. It was feeling slick at 50-55. The "race" cars had it even worse. The Ariel Atom in the group(amazingly fast on dry ground) was pushing through turn 2 at just 50mph. Even with an instructor in the car I had the rear kick out once on 5b. It was very slow, but we all learned a TON because the conditions showed us all our weaknesses.
As the day wore on it started to dry out, and eventually it was dry enough to run at a fairly normal pace. This is when I learned just how humbling it can be to be among the "fast" cars. I was passed by a number of race prepped cars, including a fully race prepped Porsche GT3...WOW is that fast...a pair of Z06s, an STI, a pair of DINAN Cooper-S, a pair of Lotuses, 3 other Porsches and last, but not least...
(do not continue reading if you are faint of heart)
...a race prepped Honda Civic(driven by a professional race driver)!!! It was humbling to be passed by a Honda, but this guy was FAST...and a very nice guy too.
Anyhow, my car ran great, the GS-D3 tires worked beautifully, I learned a bit more about the track, passed a few cars myself, and I had a lot of fun.
BTW, we also got to see two different Lotuses spin out...one of which had to be towed away. Those cars are not for the timid.
I hope to see more of you out there in the future!!!
I was in the "fast" or "experienced" group along with Igor and another Z06. The first session of the day the track was a mess. Standing water in numerous places. A clear warning NOT to hit triple digit speeds on the front straight and to drive as if on eggshells everywhere else. The warnings were fully merited. For example, normally I can turn-in to turn 2 at 65-70mph. It was feeling slick at 50-55. The "race" cars had it even worse. The Ariel Atom in the group(amazingly fast on dry ground) was pushing through turn 2 at just 50mph. Even with an instructor in the car I had the rear kick out once on 5b. It was very slow, but we all learned a TON because the conditions showed us all our weaknesses.
As the day wore on it started to dry out, and eventually it was dry enough to run at a fairly normal pace. This is when I learned just how humbling it can be to be among the "fast" cars. I was passed by a number of race prepped cars, including a fully race prepped Porsche GT3...WOW is that fast...a pair of Z06s, an STI, a pair of DINAN Cooper-S, a pair of Lotuses, 3 other Porsches and last, but not least...
(do not continue reading if you are faint of heart)
...a race prepped Honda Civic(driven by a professional race driver)!!! It was humbling to be passed by a Honda, but this guy was FAST...and a very nice guy too.
Anyhow, my car ran great, the GS-D3 tires worked beautifully, I learned a bit more about the track, passed a few cars myself, and I had a lot of fun.
BTW, we also got to see two different Lotuses spin out...one of which had to be towed away. Those cars are not for the timid.
I hope to see more of you out there in the future!!!
Yes. In addition to better tires I have Hotchkiss anti-sways front and back, better shocks/springs in back, full bushing upgrade in back, and front radius rod bushings. I'm hoping to get more front end work done next year including coil-overs and bushings and maybe lowering it a little(1/2" or so).
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,889
Likes: 1
From: Lincolnton, NC
Ah the memories. The day I attended the school a couple of years ago it rained and hailed. What fun it is to slide backwards into the gravel at 5A. I can't believe you like the GS-D3's on the track! I hated them when I was there in April but that day was not as wet. They will not carry the speed through 2 without slipping and coming out of 8 the back end kept kicking out when I would apply throttle. I was a good 5-8 seconds off of normal lap times for me.
I've never tracked my lap times, so I can't put a number to it. I can, however, see the differences in my turn-in and exit speeds. My pre-mod turn-in target speeds were about:
Turn 1 = 125-130(top of 4th)
2 = 55-60
3a/b = 35
4 = 65-70(after hitting 85-90[top of 3rd] cresting the hill)
5a/b6 = 50-55
7 = 85-90(top of 3rd)
8 = 50-55
9 = 65-70(hitting top of 3rd after the apex)
10 = 100-105
Now my target speeds at turn-in points(when I'm really stretching her legs):
1 = 135-140(in 5th)
2 = 65-70
3a/b = 40-45
4 = 100-105(in 4th)
5a = 65-70
5b/6 = 55-60(yes, I downshift between 5a and 5b so I'm in the power band through 6)
7 = 90-95(short shifting into 4th before turn-in)
8 = 55-60
9 = 75-80(short shifting into 4th before turn-in)
10 = 115-120
As for these GS-D3, they aren't as stiff as the PS2 or Potenza, but they are the best wet tires you can get and I don't have a set of track-only wheels/tires. They also seemed to take the heat well. Any way you cut it there are a dramatic improvement over my previous tires(stock BFG KDWS followed by Falken 451).
Turn 1 = 125-130(top of 4th)
2 = 55-60
3a/b = 35
4 = 65-70(after hitting 85-90[top of 3rd] cresting the hill)
5a/b6 = 50-55
7 = 85-90(top of 3rd)
8 = 50-55
9 = 65-70(hitting top of 3rd after the apex)
10 = 100-105
Now my target speeds at turn-in points(when I'm really stretching her legs):
1 = 135-140(in 5th)
2 = 65-70
3a/b = 40-45
4 = 100-105(in 4th)
5a = 65-70
5b/6 = 55-60(yes, I downshift between 5a and 5b so I'm in the power band through 6)
7 = 90-95(short shifting into 4th before turn-in)
8 = 55-60
9 = 75-80(short shifting into 4th before turn-in)
10 = 115-120
As for these GS-D3, they aren't as stiff as the PS2 or Potenza, but they are the best wet tires you can get and I don't have a set of track-only wheels/tires. They also seemed to take the heat well. Any way you cut it there are a dramatic improvement over my previous tires(stock BFG KDWS followed by Falken 451).
TECH Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
From: Puget Sound, WA
Hey it was great to see you there. Very interesting day. I took exige driver home, he was holding up pretty well.
I had very decent traction in the wet. I tried both street ps2s and almost bald nitto01s. It worked well, I was actually surprised how well nittos handled wet road as long as I avoided the puddles.
Don't sweat about that civic, when he was on slicks last time, he was passing mine and other high hp cars like a rocket
. I don't know that much about the car - but the driver really knows what he is doing.
It's always nice to be in group 1 since you can watch what others do and pick up some useful things from them.
I thought the atoms were pretty slow when it dried out, maybe they didn't want to push the cars too much, but there were some cars that lapped them
Now my target speeds at turn-in points(when I'm really stretching her legs):
1 = 135-140(in 5th)
2 = 65-70
3a/b = 40-45
4 = 100-105(in 4th)
5a = 65-70
5b/6 = 55-60(yes, I downshift between 5a and 5b so I'm in the power band through 6)
7 = 90-95(short shifting into 4th before turn-in)
8 = 55-60
9 = 75-80(short shifting into 4th before turn-in)
10 = 115-120 From my experience, these are very respectable. Take my advice for what its worth - I have a lot to learn myself, but here goes:
You could probably try entering 3a a little faster. Also, there could be a line for you between 5a and b that will not drain 10mph (it probably happens because of downshift). I really don't like down shifting after 5a. Depending on the traction and traffic, I either go to 3rd before 5a or hold it in 4th all the way and try to bring as much speed as I can into 6.
P.S. It was great to have well working and predictable brakes yesterday - Thanks again, Ellis!
I had very decent traction in the wet. I tried both street ps2s and almost bald nitto01s. It worked well, I was actually surprised how well nittos handled wet road as long as I avoided the puddles.
Don't sweat about that civic, when he was on slicks last time, he was passing mine and other high hp cars like a rocket
. I don't know that much about the car - but the driver really knows what he is doing.It's always nice to be in group 1 since you can watch what others do and pick up some useful things from them.
I thought the atoms were pretty slow when it dried out, maybe they didn't want to push the cars too much, but there were some cars that lapped them
Originally Posted by Crisisman
Now my target speeds at turn-in points(when I'm really stretching her legs):
1 = 135-140(in 5th)
2 = 65-70
3a/b = 40-45
4 = 100-105(in 4th)
5a = 65-70
5b/6 = 55-60(yes, I downshift between 5a and 5b so I'm in the power band through 6)
7 = 90-95(short shifting into 4th before turn-in)
8 = 55-60
9 = 75-80(short shifting into 4th before turn-in)
10 = 115-120
You could probably try entering 3a a little faster. Also, there could be a line for you between 5a and b that will not drain 10mph (it probably happens because of downshift). I really don't like down shifting after 5a. Depending on the traction and traffic, I either go to 3rd before 5a or hold it in 4th all the way and try to bring as much speed as I can into 6.
P.S. It was great to have well working and predictable brakes yesterday - Thanks again, Ellis!
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Verdad Gallardo Thanks for the feedback Igor. It's nice to hear it from another LS powered car. I am also looking forward to a future cam/valve job to get my useable RPM up to at least 6500(I'd love to see a 7000rpm redline). It would make it so much easier to hold 3rd on the back straights and 4th on the front straight without having to let off early or short shift.
As for the Atoms, one was supercharged the other wasn't. Evidently they run about 40k for the base model and up to 80k with the supercharger and all the extras. As a pure summer track car they are unbelievable. But they're no good for anything else.
The drivers were Australians. They came over and chatted with me when they saw my Aussie built car. They were definitely holding back because they had so little traction on the first session that they were unwilling to push too hard as it started drying out. I can't blame them. It wasn't until after lunch that I really felt comfortable with the track conditions myself, and they packed up to leave not long after.
As for the Atoms, one was supercharged the other wasn't. Evidently they run about 40k for the base model and up to 80k with the supercharger and all the extras. As a pure summer track car they are unbelievable. But they're no good for anything else.
The drivers were Australians. They came over and chatted with me when they saw my Aussie built car. They were definitely holding back because they had so little traction on the first session that they were unwilling to push too hard as it started drying out. I can't blame them. It wasn't until after lunch that I really felt comfortable with the track conditions myself, and they packed up to leave not long after.
TECH Veteran
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,954
Likes: 1
From: Kent WA
Sounds like a good time! In a way, I wouldn't mind if it rains some when I go out there on Labor Day for my afternoon lapping session, but at the same time, I do enjoy going out there in the dry weather and pushing the car as much as I feel comfortable doing. Either way, I know I'll have a great time and I'm bound to learn quite a bit!
Originally Posted by Tranzor
...when I go out there on Labor Day for my afternoon lapping session...
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 701
Likes: 0
From: Arlington, WA
Originally Posted by scramblerman
You have got to be ****** kidding me!!!! You talked all this **** to me and about my accident, then you go and drive in the rain on almost bald nittos. Thought you were Mr. Know It All???? You are a real piece of work.
Btw the my vette is getting fixed and just installed a cam, so it is really illegal on the street. Will post a thread to let you know when i get the car back so you can call the cops on me, you can bet on that!!!! Wait a minute I should call the cops on your punk *** for endangering people on the road in Washington. You make me want to
scramblerman, don't bring your issues into my thread. 
This thread is about a track event. Off the streets. With instructors and safety personnel present. With a good bit of instruction on what NOT to do in the given conditions before we ever hit the track. longdaddy had his street tires on to/from the track, and for the first session or two on the track. His Nitto's were put on all 4 wheels later after he had felt out the track conditions. He is a careful and courteous driver on the track and I'll do laps with him any time.
This thread is about a track event. Off the streets. With instructors and safety personnel present. With a good bit of instruction on what NOT to do in the given conditions before we ever hit the track. longdaddy had his street tires on to/from the track, and for the first session or two on the track. His Nitto's were put on all 4 wheels later after he had felt out the track conditions. He is a careful and courteous driver on the track and I'll do laps with him any time.
Originally Posted by Crisisman
scramblerman, don't bring your issues into my thread.
This thread is about a track event. Off the streets. With instructors and safety personnel present. With a good bit of instruction on what NOT to do in the given conditions before we ever hit the track. longdaddy had his street tires on to/from the track, and for the first session or two on the track. His Nitto's were put on all 4 wheels later after he had felt out the track conditions. He is a careful and courteous driver on the track and I'll do laps with him any time.
This thread is about a track event. Off the streets. With instructors and safety personnel present. With a good bit of instruction on what NOT to do in the given conditions before we ever hit the track. longdaddy had his street tires on to/from the track, and for the first session or two on the track. His Nitto's were put on all 4 wheels later after he had felt out the track conditions. He is a careful and courteous driver on the track and I'll do laps with him any time.
TECH Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
From: Puget Sound, WA
did I tell you not to attend a driver education event? I believe I suggested just the opposite. This is my comment from the thread that you helpfully linked:
here's what I was doing and an example of what I was suggesting for you to do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPDE
by the way, if you think that cars just magically lose control because "**** just happens", invest into some driver's ed (HiPerf or Autocross class, something like that)
of my thread.