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Bubbling Sail Panel Issue for Dummies
#1981
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you might be right.
ive never seen or heard of any 93-97 having this problem, and it's a fact that Chevy changed the glue they used beginning with the 98 year, the first year of the catfish/LS1.
all I know is that I got 4 friends with 98-02 f-bodies including Firebirds and they all have the bubbling including my own car so that's 5 total.
ive never seen or heard of any 93-97 having this problem, and it's a fact that Chevy changed the glue they used beginning with the 98 year, the first year of the catfish/LS1.
all I know is that I got 4 friends with 98-02 f-bodies including Firebirds and they all have the bubbling including my own car so that's 5 total.
1) Most '98 cars are not affected. The change did not take place until the tail end of this model year. Only cars built in 05/98 or later are affected - so that's only the last three months of '98 production. Some of the May '98 cars don't have the issue, that seems to be the transition month.
2) It's not a "fact" that the glue was changed. Actually, this has never been confirmed by any reliable/solid source, to the best of my knowledge, to date. The main factor in this issue seems to be the omission of proper primer on the underside of the panel where the glue was applied on the '99+ (and very late '98) examples. The factory TSB calls for an epoxy primer to be used on the entire underside of the replacement panel to correct this issue. The adhesives approved for use don't seem to be anything different than what was originally used.
3) ALL '99+, and some very late '98, models are affected. All of them, unless they are convertibles. Cars with darker colored roofs (which includes just about all V8 Camaros) are affected most severely, more so in climates with a lot of intense sun and heat. Lighter colors, especially white, may not present the issue, or at least not as rapidly/severely, even when exposed to intense sun. Some may be worse than others depending on heat/sun exposure over their lifespan.
None of this is new information. No '93-'97 cars are affected at all, and the majority of '98 cars are not affected either. However, all '99+ cars are subject to this condition.
#1984
02 no bubble
The Car I saw in the junk yard was an 02 and was white. Had been in the yard for a while and no bubbles. I was thinking of pulling it but then remembered the article and 99+ cars.
#1987
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Regardless, you have a 2001 so the bubbles will eventually come if you expose the roof to enough heat/sunlight.
I don't care for the carbon fiber look at all myself but, for those who like it and want more than just a wrap, I think 6LE still sells a CF version of the replacement panel.
#1988
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Is this the issue starting on mine?
Seems different to the usual symptoms I'm seeing on this thread. No bubbles yet just this odd paint line.
https://youtu.be/fI_RyQo5AiA
Seems different to the usual symptoms I'm seeing on this thread. No bubbles yet just this odd paint line.
https://youtu.be/fI_RyQo5AiA
#1990
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Took my car to a car show today, was extremely hot out, sunny and probably close to 100 degrees. When I went to leave my sail panel had a TON of bubbles in it everywhere and I saw some glue seeping out in some spots. It looked like it was cooking in the sun. When I got it home back in the garage all the bubbles were gone but I see that glue everywhere.
Should I start looking into replacing the panel? Car is a garage queen so I'm surprised that it's affected.
Should I start looking into replacing the panel? Car is a garage queen so I'm surprised that it's affected.
#1991
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No surprise here; being a garage queen only delays the issue but can't avoid it entirely unless the car is never in the heat or sun. Some owners have reported bubble flare-ups even when the car hasn't left the garage (obviously in very hot climates during hot months.) I've seen several with this condition at mileages as low as 10-30k, normally the product of hot summer sun at car shows even though it otherwise lives in the garage like yours.
Absolutely.
Unfortunately, there is no other fix. It will present this issue, with increasing degrees of severity, every time it's exposed to intense heat or direct sunlight going forward. Eventually, the waves and ripples will not go back down even once it cools.
Absolutely.
Unfortunately, there is no other fix. It will present this issue, with increasing degrees of severity, every time it's exposed to intense heat or direct sunlight going forward. Eventually, the waves and ripples will not go back down even once it cools.
#1992
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No surprise here; being a garage queen only delays the issue but can't avoid it entirely unless the car is never in the heat or sun. Some owners have reported bubble flare-ups even when the car hasn't left the garage (obviously in very hot climates during hot months.) I've seen several with this condition at mileages as low as 10-30k, normally the product of hot summer sun at car shows even though it otherwise lives in the garage like yours.
Absolutely.
Unfortunately, there is no other fix. It will present this issue, with increasing degrees of severity, every time it's exposed to intense heat or direct sunlight going forward. Eventually, the waves and ripples will not go back down even once it cools.
Absolutely.
Unfortunately, there is no other fix. It will present this issue, with increasing degrees of severity, every time it's exposed to intense heat or direct sunlight going forward. Eventually, the waves and ripples will not go back down even once it cools.
#1993
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Wish I had better news to give you though. This issue is a real hassle.
The only options are a used panel (from a '93 thru mid-'98, but if getting one from a '98 make sure it was built before 05/98), or a reproduction panel from 6LE (as far as I know, 6LE is the only source for reproduction panels.) You might be able to find an NOS GM panel somewhere, but I haven't seen one pop up for sale in a long time. GM discontinued them long ago.
I've seen a few post-install pics of the 6LE panels that didn't look as good as OEM fitment, but that could easily be a product of poor install rather than a poor panel (as an example, I had my 2002 car done at a GM dealer with a GM panel back in 2008 and even that factory panel didn't fit perfectly because the dealer body shop didn't get it positioned "just right".) I've also seen some 6LE panels that fit perfectly, probably because the installer was very careful to do it right. In other words, the repro panels generally seem to be good pieces but the finished product will only be as good as the installer.
The only options are a used panel (from a '93 thru mid-'98, but if getting one from a '98 make sure it was built before 05/98), or a reproduction panel from 6LE (as far as I know, 6LE is the only source for reproduction panels.) You might be able to find an NOS GM panel somewhere, but I haven't seen one pop up for sale in a long time. GM discontinued them long ago.
I've seen a few post-install pics of the 6LE panels that didn't look as good as OEM fitment, but that could easily be a product of poor install rather than a poor panel (as an example, I had my 2002 car done at a GM dealer with a GM panel back in 2008 and even that factory panel didn't fit perfectly because the dealer body shop didn't get it positioned "just right".) I've also seen some 6LE panels that fit perfectly, probably because the installer was very careful to do it right. In other words, the repro panels generally seem to be good pieces but the finished product will only be as good as the installer.
#1994
Rpm, I finally got myself another f-body, an '02 CETA. Amazingly, the door panels are perfect, but the black sail panel is a real eyesore. Do you have any helpful hints about picking up a used one? Do the junkyards usually cut the steel roof off & sell the whole thing, or do I need to shop local & try to carefully remove the part myself? Trying to keep my costs to a minimum.
#1995
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Wish I had better news to give you though. This issue is a real hassle.
The only options are a used panel (from a '93 thru mid-'98, but if getting one from a '98 make sure it was built before 05/98), or a reproduction panel from 6LE (as far as I know, 6LE is the only source for reproduction panels.) You might be able to find an NOS GM panel somewhere, but I haven't seen one pop up for sale in a long time. GM discontinued them long ago.
I've seen a few post-install pics of the 6LE panels that didn't look as good as OEM fitment, but that could easily be a product of poor install rather than a poor panel (as an example, I had my 2002 car done at a GM dealer with a GM panel back in 2008 and even that factory panel didn't fit perfectly because the dealer body shop didn't get it positioned "just right".) I've also seen some 6LE panels that fit perfectly, probably because the installer was very careful to do it right. In other words, the repro panels generally seem to be good pieces but the finished product will only be as good as the installer.
The only options are a used panel (from a '93 thru mid-'98, but if getting one from a '98 make sure it was built before 05/98), or a reproduction panel from 6LE (as far as I know, 6LE is the only source for reproduction panels.) You might be able to find an NOS GM panel somewhere, but I haven't seen one pop up for sale in a long time. GM discontinued them long ago.
I've seen a few post-install pics of the 6LE panels that didn't look as good as OEM fitment, but that could easily be a product of poor install rather than a poor panel (as an example, I had my 2002 car done at a GM dealer with a GM panel back in 2008 and even that factory panel didn't fit perfectly because the dealer body shop didn't get it positioned "just right".) I've also seen some 6LE panels that fit perfectly, probably because the installer was very careful to do it right. In other words, the repro panels generally seem to be good pieces but the finished product will only be as good as the installer.
Thanks again for your advice!
#1996
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Rpm, I finally got myself another f-body, an '02 CETA. Amazingly, the door panels are perfect, but the black sail panel is a real eyesore. Do you have any helpful hints about picking up a used one? Do the junkyards usually cut the steel roof off & sell the whole thing, or do I need to shop local & try to carefully remove the part myself? Trying to keep my costs to a minimum.
Yeah, this seems like nothing but a huge hassle. Sounds like getting a 6LE panel and finding a top notch body/paint shop is my best bet. Really not wanting to put anything used on this car. I'm sure it won't be cheap if it's being done at show car levels of detail either. This issue of course decides to present itself when I start looking at cams too
Thanks again for your advice!
Thanks again for your advice!
If you want to do a new repro panel, you'll have to either plan for removing and saving (or buying new) the plastic corner pieces that cover the triangle indent at the forward lower portion of the panel on each side. I haven't checked in a while, but not too long ago you could still get these new from GM, they are held in place with adhesive so some people just reuse the originals. Here are the original part numbers for these if you want to check availability:
10240164 - Right
10240165 - Left
#1997
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This issue is suuuuch BS. GM should have changed every single one when the cars were new. So aggrevating. I've seen my roof bubble twice. My car is/has been a life long garage queen so I assumed I would be spared of this BS bubbling issue. Nope. Put it in the sun long enough in a hot enough day.....bubbles. No leaking yet and the bubbles disappear once the car cools off but I'm not naive enough to think it won't get worse. The day I see glue coming through my roof is likely the first day I literally cry about a car.
My dash I think will survive OK, the door panels scare the hell out of me. I can see where they are stressed, so I know exactly where they are gonna crack if they do. I suppose I should take them off and do the mod to prevent cracking before they do but I don't even have time to drive the car, really annoying that it needs so much time and money to stay nice when it just sits in the effin garage!
My dash I think will survive OK, the door panels scare the hell out of me. I can see where they are stressed, so I know exactly where they are gonna crack if they do. I suppose I should take them off and do the mod to prevent cracking before they do but I don't even have time to drive the car, really annoying that it needs so much time and money to stay nice when it just sits in the effin garage!
#1998
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This issue is suuuuch BS. GM should have changed every single one when the cars were new. So aggrevating. I've seen my roof bubble twice. My car is/has been a life long garage queen so I assumed I would be spared of this BS bubbling issue. Nope. Put it in the sun long enough in a hot enough day.....bubbles. No leaking yet and the bubbles disappear once the car cools off but I'm not naive enough to think it won't get worse. The day I see glue coming through my roof is likely the first day I literally cry about a car.
My dash I think will survive OK, the door panels scare the hell out of me. I can see where they are stressed, so I know exactly where they are gonna crack if they do. I suppose I should take them off and do the mod to prevent cracking before they do but I don't even have time to drive the car, really annoying that it needs so much time and money to stay nice when it just sits in the effin garage!
My dash I think will survive OK, the door panels scare the hell out of me. I can see where they are stressed, so I know exactly where they are gonna crack if they do. I suppose I should take them off and do the mod to prevent cracking before they do but I don't even have time to drive the car, really annoying that it needs so much time and money to stay nice when it just sits in the effin garage!
FWIW, some of the GM dealers were able to get GM to pay for this under the 6 year/100k corrosion/rust-through warranty. This is how my dealer got it done on my '02 car, so it didn't cost me anything to repair. GM new about the issue as early as 2003 when they first stared issuing service bulletins concerning it. In those early days, many of us thought that it would mostly be a non-issue except for cars that were parked in full sun all day every day, but as time went on we discovered that this was not the case. I've been researching the issue myself since around that time. By some point in 2004-06, and after looking at many examples and getting build date and roof condition reports from many owners, it became clear that the production breaking point for this condition is actually May of '98 (which includes the last three months of '98 model year vehicles, not just the '99+ cars like the GM TSB states.)
Your dash should be fine if it's a garage queen, those don't seem to ever crack, regardless of model year, unless they are exposed to a lot of sun all the time or someone mishandles them. You can use a protectant on it, something like 303 Aerospace, to further protect it when it does see sun (such as any daytime driving, etc.)
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k3000 (10-11-2020)
#2000
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That red one looks like the one you sold to me. No issues and don't expect any. The old panel started having bubbling issues after about 12 years so was replaced. My car is driven frequently but I'm the original owner and it has about 30,000 miles so hasn't seen a lot of "super" sun in Iowa.