My 1st experience w/SD tuning.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 620
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From: Katherine N.T Australia
^^Now when you decide to switch to SD there's already a Main VE table in the pcm that i guess the pcm uses incase the MAF craps out correct? So after you disable the MAF you have a good starting point with the stock VE table...Like in my case my car only has a lid and filter..so making a few small adjustments should be all i need i'm guessing. I used LS1-Edit for like 3 years and got really good with it but after playing with EFILive and HPT they are both great tools. I would have a hard time choosing though. Cause i think i want to go back to SD tuning. The tip in throttle responds faster to me in SD mode.
Here is an example of a stock VE table pulled from a 2002 LS1 Commodore.
And now a tuned VE from the same car running full time SD.. It might not look like much on a monitor but believe me.. The difference is huge.
I agree with Frost 100% here. If your not seeing substantial improvements in throttle response your not doing it right. SD tuning is more popular in Australia than MAF based tuning. We've been doing it for years and are quite good at it. If there were no benefits to it, no one would bother. The gains at WOT are there too. And once again if you can't see them your not doing it right.
What concerns me if the fact that he couldent get the car to idle in winter. Isnt this the classic issue that non SD tuned people have with SD tunes, which the guys with SD tunes say is a myth..
I live in new England where year round there is about a 100 degree swing between the hottest and coldest days in a given year. I want the tune to be spot on no matter what time of the year it is. Hell if I wanted to constantly be adjusting the tune. I'de throw away all this EFI crap and go carb.
I live in new England where year round there is about a 100 degree swing between the hottest and coldest days in a given year. I want the tune to be spot on no matter what time of the year it is. Hell if I wanted to constantly be adjusting the tune. I'de throw away all this EFI crap and go carb.
12 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,585
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From: Edmond, OK
i read some info in a thread on here and one of the cons to SD was if u had an auto tranny because an auto relies on the MAF. could someone explain this and if i could switch to SD with an auto???
honestly, if you think about it, what AFTERMARKET efi (standalone) systems use a MAF sensor? how much power are those systems ranging from? and isnt the one huge advantage of NOT having a carburetor is because you dont have to tune it all the time? that the car thinks and adjusts itself?
a PROPERLY tuned SD tune is the most accurate and consistant way to tune a car. if you think about it, the maf is a weak link. i've taken a few efi tuning courses and have become quite comfortable with a mafless tune.
a PROPERLY tuned SD tune is the most accurate and consistant way to tune a car. if you think about it, the maf is a weak link. i've taken a few efi tuning courses and have become quite comfortable with a mafless tune.
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Verdad Gallardo What concerns me if the fact that he couldent get the car to idle in winter. Isnt this the classic issue that non SD tuned people have with SD tunes, which the guys with SD tunes say is a myth..
I live in new England where year round there is about a 100 degree swing between the hottest and coldest days in a given year. I want the tune to be spot on no matter what time of the year it is. Hell if I wanted to constantly be adjusting the tune. I'de throw away all this EFI crap and go carb.
I live in new England where year round there is about a 100 degree swing between the hottest and coldest days in a given year. I want the tune to be spot on no matter what time of the year it is. Hell if I wanted to constantly be adjusting the tune. I'de throw away all this EFI crap and go carb.
the AIT sensor placement becomes much more critcal now.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Katherine N.T Australia
Of the thousands of A4 cars running in Australia SD. ive never heard of a problem. download the HSV GTS A4 tune and compare it to a clubsport A4 one. The GTS was factory released in SD with the MAF failed in exactly the same way as we do it and on a stock os without all the advantages that we have today.
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 156
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From: Port Huron
It does not compensate for it in the same way that MAF cars do. If Bryan Herter from PCM's for less, one of the best tuners in the country, who Mario Andretti himself only trusts to do a tune on his Corvette's feels that MAF is the only way to tune to a point he won't even do SD tunes, it is good enough to back MAF tunes IMO.
So you can't just remove/fail the maf, you also have to disable 3 maf codes to avoid getting the full line-pressure mode. That's the only tie-in with the auto tranny that I can think of.
In general, SD can account for air temps. The trick is to get the IAT / ECT blending table set up right. Too little emphasis on IAT and it doesn't adequately cover the change in air density. Too much emphasis on IAT and it over-corrects. This is one I'm still figuring out...
12 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,585
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From: Edmond, OK
The '98 pcm commands full line-pressure constantly if it thinks the maf has a problem. This is bad for the transmission. It makes all gear changes harsh, and the car jerks hard when putting it into gear initially.
So you can't just remove/fail the maf, you also have to disable 3 maf codes to avoid getting the full line-pressure mode. That's the only tie-in with the auto tranny that I can think of.
In general, SD can account for air temps. The trick is to get the IAT / ECT blending table set up right. Too little emphasis on IAT and it doesn't adequately cover the change in air density. Too much emphasis on IAT and it over-corrects. This is one I'm still figuring out...
So you can't just remove/fail the maf, you also have to disable 3 maf codes to avoid getting the full line-pressure mode. That's the only tie-in with the auto tranny that I can think of.
In general, SD can account for air temps. The trick is to get the IAT / ECT blending table set up right. Too little emphasis on IAT and it doesn't adequately cover the change in air density. Too much emphasis on IAT and it over-corrects. This is one I'm still figuring out...
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 252
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From: ATX
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ion/index.html
Basic article on Mass Flow vs Speed Density for those wondering
Basic article on Mass Flow vs Speed Density for those wondering
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
So if you're SD, then the trans is fine as long as your VE is good and not under.
As Macca said, you will be fine... especially the F-bodies (in the US) since thier VE table is close from the factory.
As Jonh_D said, you have to disable the trans failsafes for the 3 MAF DTC's.
Last edited by joecar; Dec 30, 2008 at 05:28 PM.
