Spark Advance Dip to -10 degrees
Originally Posted by 2002WS6_MN6
I saw this in one of my WOT log files.. Can someone explain why my spark advance went all the way down to -10degrees and there was no KR or anything out of the ordinary?
The entire logfile can be viewed here
Thanks.
The entire logfile can be viewed here
Thanks.
Originally Posted by Smoke_ur_5.0
I didn't see any shifts in his log where it dipped to -10, looks like the TCS kicked his foot off the throttle(hence the reduced TPS %) and reduced timing.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
From: Freehold, NJ
I really don't think my TCS was on.. It was over a week ago so I can't be 100% sure.. I have the SLP TCS reverse module so it's always off (unless I make it default on which I don't).. BUT.. I can't be 100% sure..
The SLP module sometimes doesn't kick off TCS.
For kicks, enable TCS, log a file like you did earlier(try to get some tire spin) and see if it replicates the same info. Do you have a M6 or A4?
For kicks, enable TCS, log a file like you did earlier(try to get some tire spin) and see if it replicates the same info. Do you have a M6 or A4?
The "Spark Retard Limit" table value is set to -10 degrees and kicks in very breifly during upshifts and during what the pcm considers abuse mode. This happens all of the time with A4's and transgo shift kits, although it's hard to catch because it's happens for such a brief period of time. I always change the value in this table to +15 or +20.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
From: Freehold, NJ
I have a M6..
It's snowing here.. and gonna snow for a couple of more days.. I need to get another logfile.. I actually have about 3 other log files where I do not see this -10 degrees drop.. That's why this one interested me..
It's snowing here.. and gonna snow for a couple of more days.. I need to get another logfile.. I actually have about 3 other log files where I do not see this -10 degrees drop.. That's why this one interested me..
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Originally Posted by Smoke_ur_5.0
His rpms don't drop enough for a shift, he's still in the same gear just the throttle being backed out reduced the rpms. If he shifted it should have dropped more than 100rpm.
I'm not certain of what's going on, because I wasn't driving. But if it was my car it would seem the easiest test would be to 0 out upshift torque reduction.
Originally Posted by 2002WS6_MN6
I have a M6..
It's snowing here.. and gonna snow for a couple of more days.. I need to get another logfile.. I actually have about 3 other log files where I do not see this -10 degrees drop.. That's why this one interested me..
It's snowing here.. and gonna snow for a couple of more days.. I need to get another logfile.. I actually have about 3 other log files where I do not see this -10 degrees drop.. That's why this one interested me..
It's very hard to catch the -10 drop during logging with a M6, but it does happen. I'll bet that's your culprit. On an A4 with a shift kit it will drop during a hard upshift and hold the -10 until you peddle it (I had this problem with my WS6).
Frame 166 shows where he is flooring it at 3892rpm at 30mph he is in the gear and at WOT until frame 168 where he hits 4475rpm and doing 34mph then in frame 169 I beleive he exhibits tire spin where the TCS reduces timing and the TCS kicks his foot off the throttle where his throttle position drop to 77% at 39mph and holds it there a little while.
Frame 181 looks the same, he's in a different gear and stabs the throttle to 100% where it goes to to retard limit of -10 backs off the throttle again to 60% until the tirespin stops and let's him go to 100% throttle again in frame 192.
Frame 181 looks the same, he's in a different gear and stabs the throttle to 100% where it goes to to retard limit of -10 backs off the throttle again to 60% until the tirespin stops and let's him go to 100% throttle again in frame 192.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
From: Freehold, NJ
Originally Posted by emarkay
As for your data, MN6, I won't look at anything but the source - transcribed data is as good as no data! Feel free to email me the original logs to emarkay@email.com, along with some details about car, mileage, maintenance, and the like.
My car is a 2002 WS6 M6. 4000 miles
Just a Lid....
Let me know what you think.. thanks.
Last edited by 2002WS6_MN6; Jan 26, 2004 at 10:26 PM.
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Team ZR-1
Its been proven several times that people at the drag strip trip several knocks in a row, and spend the rest of the day with low timing UNTIL more fuel is added and the Bad Gas bit is mentioned in GM documents.
I've tested this on my '99 C5 and the function is there.
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Team ZR1, the 300+ users that viewed this thread are STILL waiting on your evidence that the LS1 PCM has a "Bad Gas Bit" that will switch the spark maps exclusively to the Low Octane timing table after excessive knock.....
You mentioned you even tested this on your C5, please either show the hard facts or please explain how you proved it or disprove what is shown on the EFILive website.
I know you dislike cyberspace B.S, you often say so, so please lets sort this out once and for all.
You mentioned you even tested this on your C5, please either show the hard facts or please explain how you proved it or disprove what is shown on the EFILive website.
I know you dislike cyberspace B.S, you often say so, so please lets sort this out once and for all.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
From: USA
For one I never go to that scanner website nor will I,
2nd I gave my input as to seeing PCM into constant low octane table and by adding fuel PCM went back to hi octane, and lastly as I said YOU READ the GM documents as it states there is a bit flipped when PCM sees several constant knocks and common sense says they would use the low octane table for a bad grade of gas issues.
it would be stupid to think they have a low OCTANE timing table that would not protect the engine when there is a gas grade problem, esp for a $45,000 Corvette.
Again, not ALL models are equal and we all know Corvettes REQUIRE high octane where in other models it is suggested.
GM does not have content in their service manuals for nothing stating :
Add the specified amount of fuel. 19 liters (5 gallons)
Operate the vehicle within the conditions of the customers concern.
Does a driveability condition still exist?
Yes - Go to Step 6
No - Go to Step 29
2nd I gave my input as to seeing PCM into constant low octane table and by adding fuel PCM went back to hi octane, and lastly as I said YOU READ the GM documents as it states there is a bit flipped when PCM sees several constant knocks and common sense says they would use the low octane table for a bad grade of gas issues.
it would be stupid to think they have a low OCTANE timing table that would not protect the engine when there is a gas grade problem, esp for a $45,000 Corvette.
Again, not ALL models are equal and we all know Corvettes REQUIRE high octane where in other models it is suggested.
GM does not have content in their service manuals for nothing stating :
Add the specified amount of fuel. 19 liters (5 gallons)
Operate the vehicle within the conditions of the customers concern.
Does a driveability condition still exist?
Yes - Go to Step 6
No - Go to Step 29
Last edited by Team ZR-1; Feb 3, 2004 at 12:56 PM.
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Team ZR-1
For one I never go to that scanner website nor will I
Originally Posted by Team ZR-1
GM does not have content in their service manuals for nothing stating :
Add the specified amount of fuel. 19 liters (5 gallons)
Operate the vehicle within the conditions of the customers concern.
Does a driveability condition still exist?
Yes - Go to Step 6
No - Go to Step 29
Add the specified amount of fuel. 19 liters (5 gallons)
Operate the vehicle within the conditions of the customers concern.
Does a driveability condition still exist?
Yes - Go to Step 6
No - Go to Step 29
What do you think is going to happen to 5 gallons of 91 Octane when you stick in 5 gallons of say 98 Octane?? Yeah, Knock will reduce, therefore the adaptive scaler will 'eventually' get back upto 100%.
It was proven on a Camaro that adding fuel does NOTHING to the adaptive octane scaler value, only driving the car with reduced knock activity will get it back upto 100%. But then, you refuse to look at that evidence.
Still waiting on the answer as to how GM can run twin maps in cars that do not have a Fuel Level Sensor into the PCM?. That's gotta be somewhere in your Technical Manual
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
From: Southern IN, USA
I don't believe it - he's got the OTHER foot in his mouth now!
Imagine a used car dealer telling you that they know how to put gas in ALL the different brands of cars they have on the lot, because they know how to read the manuals.
MRK
PS: Now I see why those EFILive people have to work so hard to just tell the verifiable truth. It's the "Red Convertible Syndrome" again... No matter how authentic and correct your car is at an antique car show, the red convert always wins...
The only saving grace is that you, and those that really know the truth, genuinely appreciate it, and we know that pop culture is just some idiot's impression of the facts. It is the same in the business environment.
Imagine a used car dealer telling you that they know how to put gas in ALL the different brands of cars they have on the lot, because they know how to read the manuals.
MRK
PS: Now I see why those EFILive people have to work so hard to just tell the verifiable truth. It's the "Red Convertible Syndrome" again... No matter how authentic and correct your car is at an antique car show, the red convert always wins...
The only saving grace is that you, and those that really know the truth, genuinely appreciate it, and we know that pop culture is just some idiot's impression of the facts. It is the same in the business environment.
Last edited by emarkay; Feb 4, 2004 at 02:42 PM. Reason: spelling
