02blackbeauty19

iTrader: (22)

Hey guys,

A buddy of mine is having some bad idle issues on his 2010 Camaro SS and since i'm new to the tuning world, I'm hoping some of you can point out some flaws from his tune and short log file that I recorded today.

Here is a link to the thread on HPT Forum and you can see the attached files.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34326

Hemi2Slo

I gotta say,I don't really see that much of a problem other than its idling kinda high. I'd change the target idle speed to 850 if it was me. However, his VE looks like its mostly stock. Since he's got a cam the VE really should be dialed in if it is not already.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Who tuned the car? The shop that installed the H/C?

02blackbeauty19

iTrader: (22)

I knew that was too high, but after seeing it and hearing it, its definitely more than just a target idle speed problem. I wasn't able to capture it in the log, but upon initial start-up, it revs sky high for a few seconds and then settles down to 1,100ish...still bounding around 1,100 though.

Yeah, both the shop tuned it and worked on it. Ill send you a PM as I am not seeking to give any bad press. Only to help a friend out.

BlueThunder2

iTrader: (3)

Hey Dwight (Hemi)...glad to see you on here.

I'll give it a look this evening when I get back from a tuning session in Kilgore.
So, probably around 10pm.

However, without having my laptop to look at the file, and reading your brief description, sounds like the start up table has a lot of air. Then, if he's running the virtual ve you might want to run a maf only tune.

But, as far as the idle being too high, shouldn't be a problem. Just the idle speed doesn't match the air its looking for at idle.

Hope that helps a little. I'll look at the file later tonight.

Hemi2Slo

Yeah I noticed after I posted that it has virtual VE, so maf only is bout the only way to go on the tune.

BlueThunder2

iTrader: (3)

ok, saw a few things that might be affecting you. Go ahead and drop the idle to about 900 or 950 to start with. Adjust the high and low octaine spark to 23 or 25 in the map area for idle. Set the spark table for overspeed and underspeed back to stock. The stoich afr should not be 14.67 as far as it is. Put that back to stock as well or put 14.67 up to 12% alcohol, no higher. Then put the rest back to stock. If these few things don't take care of it for you, start adjusting the base idle airflow.
Any more questions let me know. Or, bring the car to Longview for me to get my hands dirty.

02blackbeauty19

iTrader: (22)

Todd, thank you bud!
Ill do these things for him and if they don't work, Ill recommend you for him.
Again, thanks for those tips.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Not looking for the name of the shop....I don't let anyone touch any of my cars so its irrelevant to me. I was just curious if this car was "tuned" or if you were tackling it from scratch.

BlueThunder2

iTrader: (3)

No problem. I'm always available for assistance.

DSteck

iTrader: (4)

Anything outside the 0% cell for the stoich table doesnt matter. Also, Gen IV PCMs don't need the high octane table blended with the idle spark table. The fina idle airflow won't do much for his idle unless we are talking about recovery,

OP, I posted a file on HP Tuners for you.

BlueThunder2

iTrader: (3)

I've noticed that if your carry the 14.67 out a little further than 0% it does affect the tune dependent upon how much ethanol is in the fuel. If the ethanol level is above 12% (which some of these guys in Shreveport run up to E85), and you are instructing 14.67, there tends to be a little kr. So, I won't extend that value past the 12% range and I only do that for better fuel economy (it seems to be a level that you can get away with). Grasping at straws with the timing thing. I always try to have those close so the transition between tables is smooth. 23-25* of timing typically works well with the aftermarket cams. (again not having cam information)
I gaurantee that if the final idle airflow is way out of spec that this car won't idle properly. He is just wanting help with the idle, not tune the car (assuming the rest of the tune is ok?). You being an experienced tuner know as well as I do that if they were to perform a good tune on it that these idle issues would probably work themselves out.

By the way, good suggestions on the HP Tuner site. You are absolutely correct.

DSteck

iTrader: (4)

These cars do not have ethanol sensors. Whatever you're seeing is just a fluke.

M6 smoothing takes care of blending, but auto cars don't need that. Gen IV engines actually do NOT like tons of idle timing. My 23* overlap cam in my Z06 ran 17* of idle timing, and my buddy's 441 LS7 with a 29* overlap cam idles perfect (and stable) at 19*.

Final idle airflow isn't really going to impact sitting around idling. That's more for idle recovery after a rev or coastdown. All it does is give an absolute floor to throttle position based on RPM. That position can then be modified with the ECT multiplier table. The E38 does not function like the LS1 PCMs do. I can set final idle airflow to zero and still have a car start and idle, no problem. It'll just stall right out if you rev the engine up.

BlueThunder2

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, not disagreeing with your post, Just trying to give Chris some ideas of things he can adjust that might fix the idle. Also stating things I have come across. I have been tuning these vehicles for a while, same as you. Shoot, just did two TBSSs today. Yes, I set the idle timing at 19 on one and 20 on the other. No I didn't have to mess with base idle air flow on either.
Still had to fix stoich on one from when another shop tuned his TBSS. It was getting some kr until I did so. Fluke, I'm really beginning to think not. That is several cars in the last two years that I have seen that on.

Back to the OP, sorry for Hijacking the thread Chris hopefully Dsteck's tuning adjustment took care of your friends issues. If not, you know how to reach me.

By the way, finished Wade's tune tonight. Hopefully it will be enough for him to beat that cam only record for 2 wheel drive TBSS. He was close before with the other shops tune, hopefully I was able to give him enough to put it over the edge.

DSteck

iTrader: (4)

Anything beyond 0% does not get used in a non flex fuel vehicle. That is indisputable fact.

02blackbeauty19

iTrader: (22)

Don't worry about hijacking....I am learning from the conversation.

We are planning on meeting up Sunday for me to upload the tune file and I will keep you guys posted.

As far as the rest of the tune (other than idle), I'm not sure. He hasn't said anything to me about it and I haven't been able to ride with him to log anything. Like I said, sunday or monday I will update what I have and the results.

I'd like to thank both of you guys for lending help with your knowledge and time. I am fairly new at this and really don't have much spare time to really learn like I would like to, but when I have the opportunity to help a friend out, I will because I've been in his shoes before.