RutanZ28

Well the weather is starting to get pretty nice here in Indiana and I haven't been able to start my car for 3 months. Here's the scoop...

The car ran like a champ, no problems at all one night in February. I got in it to go home the next morning and it would not start. It cranked over just fine, but would not start. I checked at the schrader valve and found there to be no fuel pressure with the key on. At this point I was thinking the fuel pump may have gone out. I decided to dig a little more, so I pulled a plug wire and stuck a screwdriver in it and set it close to a good ground, turned the key, and no spark either. So I had no fuel and no spark. I went through and checked all the fuses and they all looked good. I had a problem about 2 years ago where my VATS decided to quit working and wouldn't allow the car to start so I thought that may be the problem again. I sent my PCM to LG Motorsports (where it was dyno tuned originally) and they disabled the VATS in my PCM then they tested it on 3 cars and it started all 3 cars right up no problem. In fact they also returned to me a second PCM to try should mine not work that they also tested on all 3 cars and it too started all 3 of those cars. I tried both PCM's in my car tonight and neither one would start my car. Again I checked the schrader valve and no fuel, checked the plugwire again and again no spark. I don't understand what I may be missing here. I know the PCM is good, and as far as I can tell all my fuses are ok, yet I still have no fuel or spark. Any help as to what this problem may be is greatly appreciated as I am at the end of my wits with this one. I have considered trying to track down the VATS computer (I think it may be on the passenger side under the dash?) and unplug it completely to see if that works.

Truly Frustrated,

Mike

RutanZ28

C'mon guys, surely someone else has had this same problem right?

LS1 Brent

Sorry to hear about that. I don't know what to tell you. Goodluck to you.
-Brent

JCurtin

iTrader: (1)

sounds like my problem. I almost ordered a damn fuel pump friday because I thought that was the problem. Now I think its the damn vats system. I read up on it, when I 1st get in the car it will crank up, run and then die. On the next attempt it will not fire, the fuel pump makes no noise. Wait a good 10mins and it will start sometimes. Well the vats system takes 4-10 minutes to reset and let you try again. So if you try to start the car over and over, and do not wait the full recovery time it starts over(recovery time) every single time you turn the key. My key looks pretty worn out compared to my friends 2002. You said it was deleted from your pcm, is it disconnected under the dash/steering column? Is there any possibilty it could be your key? Dont know if this was much help, hell my car is in the garage and wont start right now so I'm in the same boat as you!

RutanZ28

The difference is that mine will not start at all. I am going to try disconnecting the VATS deal under the dash tonight. We'll see.

horist

ok.. so you're getting neither fuel nor spark... you've tried multiple PCMs ... w/the key in the run position have you tried any kind of scanner software to see if the PCM is sending anything out on the bus?

Your PCM wiring harness is clean/not corroded?

You've checked all the fuses? (PCM Bat , PCM Ign and while you're at it everything else)

Does the starter kick in? the motor cranks but no spark or fuel right?

I'd start w/fuses ... if it worked one day and not the next and there were no changes done ... it's gotta be something simple I'd hope... so first make sure power is going where it needs to (fuses) , and make sure the harness that attaches to the PCM is clean...

Other than that I'm stumped...

Also I don't believe disconnecting the VATS (BCM) under the dash will fix your problem... it's already been turned off in the PCM ... and I believe even if it's security related you should get spark... just no fuel... (however I could be mistaken here)

ataylors

iTrader: (2)

its the cam/crank sensor the PCM doesnt see any RPM so it has no need to supply spark or fuel.

RutanZ28

Ok so I ordered a new BCM yesterday. I don't honestly know if that will fix it or not, but we'll see. I only ordered it because it went out a couple years ago and the dealer replaced it and everything ran fine afterwards. I thought about the crank sensor, however I don't think the crank sensor would stop the fuel pump from priming when the key is turned to "on" but not cranking. Right now I don't really have access to Autotap or any other scan tool so it is somewhat of a craps shoot at this point. Does anyone know of a way to test the cam/crank sensor? Is this something I can plug a multimeter into a couple wires and see what happens when I crank the motor over? Thanks for your replies. I am going to try the new BCM tomorrow night and see if that does the trick, if it doesn't I guess I'll be looking more at the crank sensor. Also what does Autotap or any other scan tool cost and where can I acquire one?

Mike

RutanZ28

CHECK

CHECK

CHECK

I checked every fuse, and all the harness connections. Everything seems to be good. This is what baffles me. I thought for sure it would be something simple as well.

That makes two of us. Thanks for the checklist though. I have been over the car at least 3 times checking fuses etc... it just does not make any sense.

Is there any way to verify this? I bought a new BCM yesterday so we'll see if that helps it or not. Does anyone know FOR SURE wether or not the security only cuts fuel and not spark?

Thanks again,

Mike

technical

RutanZ28

Can anyone tell me how to test this sensor? Is it something I can do with an electrical multimeter?

technical

Without looking at the service manual ( which I still haven't bought yet ), I can't say off the top of my head the exact testing procedure but...
It's just a reluctor/magnet setup. So at the very least you could check for continuity. Did you do the cam install yourself? Did this happen soon after the cam install by any chance?

dheck

iTrader: (9)

Where in Indiana? I have autotap. I am in the fishers area. I can check a few things for you.

RutanZ28

This happened over a year after the cam install. Like I said the car ran like a champ for over a year. I really doubt it has anything to do with the cam install.

Dheck,

I live just southeast of lafayette. I would be willing to pay your expenses if you would not mind coming up and scanning the car for me. At least then I would have some idea of what is going on with it. I am first going to try replacing the BCM to see if that helps. I plan on doing that by no later then Friday. If that does not work I'll let you know and maybe it would be possible to get together one evening or on a weekend. I would really appreciate the help.

Mike

RutanZ28

Ok I did some probing around tonight with the multimeter. I also plugged in the new BCM and no dice there. Anyhow I tested the wires again to see if the fuel pump was getting any juice with the key on. No power at the pump. Checked the continuity of the wires to the pump all good. Checked the fuel pump relay. Relay was good. Checked the power source to the relay and it was good. Checked the coil wires to the relay and found that when the key is on the relay is getting no signal from the computer. Now, I believe that with the key on regardless of wether or not the crankshaft is turning, the fuel pump should kick on until it gets up to the right pressure. So is it possible that the fuel pressure switch is stuck? Anyone wanna give me some insight on how to test it? Would Autotap show me if a switch is bad or if a sensor is not functioning. I have traced it as far as the PCM and that is where my knowledge stops. I tested every fuse in the car again. all were good. I have replaced the BCM so it's not VATS, I put a PCM that I know works in the car and no dice there either. so here is the list of things that are NOT the problem...
1) PCM
2) BCM
3) Fuel Pump
4) Fuses
5) Fuel Pump Relay
6) Harness Wiring
7) Ignition relay

Beyond that I can only assume that my problem lies in the hands of a sensor or a switch. I have no idea which one. I have been tod about the crankshaft or camshaft sensors, but neither of those would explain why it will not prime the fuel pump. Or at least it doesn't make sense to me. I am getting pretty frustrated, so I am going to go pick up my tools and go to bed defeated yet again. Damned Car.

ataylors

iTrader: (2)

when you crank it doesn the security light flash??

technical

There should be two power sources to the relay one is hot and the other is the trigger. Give the trigger some juice and see if the relay clicks and the fuel pump goes on.

Bad key? I've seen ignition keys sometimes create problems...have a spare?

RutanZ28

No security light...

The power source to the fuel pump relay is hot. The trigger does nothing when you turn the key on so evidently it's getting nothing from the PCM. Now the question is why? What criteria have to be met for the PCM to send a signal to the fuel pump relay? Only thing I can think at this point is maybe that the fuel pressure switch is stuck which is telling the PCM that it doesn't NEED any more fuel so it doesn't turn the pump on when I turn the key to on. Then again there could be a lot of switches/sensors that would keep the PCM from sending that signal that I don't know about. I am still getting no spark when I crank the motor over. Could this be because it has no fuel and therefore sees no need for spark? I don't know! I am baffled by this. I hate to keep throwing parts at it. I simply need a tech II or autotap os some sort of scanner that can at least point me in the right direction. I'm stumped.

technical

The pump should go back on when you start to crank it.
Is something shorting out your PCM's? Getting power at the PCM?

ataylors

iTrader: (2)

this is what I ws thinking but I thought that the security light would flash if that was the case.

there is no fuel pressure switch, you have no spark because that is triggered by the same thing as the fuel pump.