do stalls require a tune?
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do stalls require a tune? getting a thousand different answered when doing a search but Im getting a trans rebuilt (4L60E) in an 04 GTO and im going with a 3,000 stall circle D converter because the tourqer 2 cam recommends a 3k or higher but my question is will i have to trailer the car home after a stall install as I was told or is that incorrect? i was told a tune must be done before driving it or it would burn the converter up.
It will slip the converter until lockup with the stock settings, which aftermarket converters don't like. But, it shouldn't burn up in like 20 mins of regular driving.
So if you can get home without a lot of slipping the converter, it should do ok. Then tune the shift points, set your TCC Duty to 100% max and 90% min, and tune your TCC lockup table, and it should be fine. Though, with a 3000, you may not have to do a lot of shift point or TCC Apply/Release tuning.
So if you can get home without a lot of slipping the converter, it should do ok. Then tune the shift points, set your TCC Duty to 100% max and 90% min, and tune your TCC lockup table, and it should be fine. Though, with a 3000, you may not have to do a lot of shift point or TCC Apply/Release tuning.
It will slip the converter until lockup with the stock settings, which aftermarket converters don't like. But, it shouldn't burn up in like 20 mins of regular driving.
So if you can get home without a lot of slipping the converter, it should do ok. Then tune the shift points, set your TCC Duty to 100% max and 90% min, and tune your TCC lockup table, and it should be fine. Though, with a 3000, you may not have to do a lot of shift point or TCC Apply/Release tuning.
So if you can get home without a lot of slipping the converter, it should do ok. Then tune the shift points, set your TCC Duty to 100% max and 90% min, and tune your TCC lockup table, and it should be fine. Though, with a 3000, you may not have to do a lot of shift point or TCC Apply/Release tuning.
What doesn't make sense?
There's three areas to tune with a stall.
1) The shift points at various TPS settings, WOT shift points, WOT RPM. He can get by without a tune to any of those. It'll drive better once those are adjusted.
2) Auto TCC for lockup/unlock. Again, this should be adjusted, but doesn't have to be to get by.
3) I would say the TCC Duty Cycle is where he could have problems. The stock values allow the lockup clutch to slip. I don't advise allowing that to happen. It's there by default to make for smoother driving. Making the lockup on/off makes for harder lockup of course. But the smaller diameter aftermarket lockup clutch shouldn't be slipped. If that wasn't clear in my post, it was clear in my brain. And should be clearer now.
There's other things to adjust with torque management, but if his trans isn't built, I wouldn't do most of that.
The question was around does he need a tune. And the answer is no. However, the converter will last longer and drive better once tuned.
There's three areas to tune with a stall.
1) The shift points at various TPS settings, WOT shift points, WOT RPM. He can get by without a tune to any of those. It'll drive better once those are adjusted.
2) Auto TCC for lockup/unlock. Again, this should be adjusted, but doesn't have to be to get by.
3) I would say the TCC Duty Cycle is where he could have problems. The stock values allow the lockup clutch to slip. I don't advise allowing that to happen. It's there by default to make for smoother driving. Making the lockup on/off makes for harder lockup of course. But the smaller diameter aftermarket lockup clutch shouldn't be slipped. If that wasn't clear in my post, it was clear in my brain. And should be clearer now.
There's other things to adjust with torque management, but if his trans isn't built, I wouldn't do most of that.
The question was around does he need a tune. And the answer is no. However, the converter will last longer and drive better once tuned.
Yeah, that's worded wrong, LOL.
In my follow-up, I tried to correct to say it slips into lockup - not overall slip (which of course the converter does when not locked up). I'm thinking about it and wording it poorly. But anyway, that slip into lockup does happen with the stock settings. I've always made it just on/off into lockup to try and save the lockup clutch.
Oh - and misfire desensitizing and trans slippage codes will need to be done too.
But again, none of it is absolutely needed. Just makes the car drive better and perform as it should.
In my follow-up, I tried to correct to say it slips into lockup - not overall slip (which of course the converter does when not locked up). I'm thinking about it and wording it poorly. But anyway, that slip into lockup does happen with the stock settings. I've always made it just on/off into lockup to try and save the lockup clutch.
Oh - and misfire desensitizing and trans slippage codes will need to be done too.
But again, none of it is absolutely needed. Just makes the car drive better and perform as it should.
Next time, don't post anything.
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yes stall converters will require a tune. For starters, a higher stall takes a lot of load off the engine and causes the PCM to freak out and throw misfire codes on some cars. Also some other codes many need to be disabled(Po74X) or the TCC lock up will randomly not function. Then you need to adjust lock up pressure. I prefer 100/60, being 90 is too aggressive. Shift points also will need to be touched up. I tuned mine myself with a little research and trial/error. Was fairly easy.
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i read an article back in 2004 super chevy ls1 do's & dont's. it said a stall under 3400 didnt need a tune. wrong! i did need a tune with my 3k stall. now that doesnt mean it wont drive , just not very smooth.
you will have absolutely 0 damage if you don't tune it. There are very minimal changes done when installing a stall converter... the converter does most of the work..which is to "slip" to the desired rpm.
He means slip the lockup clutch. GM OE converters use a specific type of clutch material that is porous and will not overheat when there is a partial apply of the lockup clutch. If the aftermarket converter's lockup clutch does not have the same material then you could burn the clutch when the PWM duty cycle is too low to lock up the clutch. Damage may not happen immediately but over time it will cause issues.
He means slip the lockup clutch. GM OE converters use a specific type of clutch material that is porous and will not overheat when there is a partial apply of the lockup clutch. If the aftermarket converter's lockup clutch does not have the same material then you could burn the clutch when the PWM duty cycle is too low to lock up the clutch. Damage may not happen immediately but over time it will cause issues.
Correct, that along with the part throttle and WOT tcc apply is what usually need to be addressed. The fact that misfire tables and "slip" tables need to be addressed is new to me. Tuned countless amounts of gm vehicles and have never experienced such issue. Nonetheless, tc tuning is a big deal on 6L trannies and not so much on 4 speed ones.
Most people do which is likely why the issues don't present themselves until you detect a misfire and the vehicle doesn't. Last edited by smokeshow; Jun 18, 2017 at 06:07 AM.
But yeah, youll never have any issues if the misfire tables are maxed lol.
yes stall converters will require a tune. For starters, a higher stall takes a lot of load off the engine and causes the PCM to freak out and throw misfire codes on some cars. Also some other codes many need to be disabled(Po74X) or the TCC lock up will randomly not function. Then you need to adjust lock up pressure. I prefer 100/60, being 90 is too aggressive. Shift points also will need to be touched up. I tuned mine myself with a little research and trial/error. Was fairly easy.
I put a 3,200 in my stock truck and it ran fng amazing for awhile but the lockup was erratic. Still totally driveable though. It throws codes like crazy and is really running like S lately. I haven't tuned it though. It seems to have learned to lockup at appropriate times and comes out at mostly appropriate times but the power is gone. Not sure what the computer is commanding, but it went from being quicker down low to slower in general.
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yes stall converters will require a tune. For starters, a higher stall takes a lot of load off the engine and causes the PCM to freak out and throw misfire codes on some cars. Also some other codes many need to be disabled(Po74X) or the TCC lock up will randomly not function. Then you need to adjust lock up pressure. I prefer 100/60, being 90 is too aggressive. Shift points also will need to be touched up. I tuned mine myself with a little research and trial/error. Was fairly easy.