Aftermarket ECUs
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 274
Likes: 68
From: Okemos, MI
Aftermarket ECUs I have HPTuners and plan to use that to tune my '0411 for the LS3. But the more I read and learn about how this is going to go, the more I find myself interested in going to an aftermarket ECU that can go full closed loop with a wideband.
We have a FAST XFI in the Grand National, and it's pretty great. I don't love the tuning software, but it does get the job done. I didn't do the install or the initial tune and am not super familiar with everything involved on that car. Probably the biggest downside is price.
Anybody running an aftermarket ECU in their F-body, I'd be curious to hear:
We have a FAST XFI in the Grand National, and it's pretty great. I don't love the tuning software, but it does get the job done. I didn't do the install or the initial tune and am not super familiar with everything involved on that car. Probably the biggest downside is price.
Anybody running an aftermarket ECU in their F-body, I'd be curious to hear:
- What ECU?
- How well does it integrate with the car? Do the factory gauges and trouble lights all work?
- Did you have to do your own wiring harness, or was there something plug-and-play readily available?
- How do you like the tuning software? Is it easy to use? Does it have the ability to self-tune based on AFR targets and a wideband, and does it actually work?
- Are there any downsides relative to a factory ECU?
- Are you happy with your setup?
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 274
Likes: 68
From: Okemos, MI
Things I'm aware of (there are others, but I'm excluding anything that can't drive eight cylinders):
AEM Infinity 3
AEM Infinity 5
AEM Infinity 7
Bosch MS 6.1 EVO
Bosch MS 6.2 EVO
Bosch MS 6.3 EVO
Bosch MS 6.4 EVO
Bosch MS 6.4P EVO
Bosch MS 7.4
Bosch MS 7.8
DTA Fast T8+
DTA Fast T12+
ECUMaster EMU Pro 8
ECUMaster EMU Pro 16
ECUMaster EMU Black
Emtron
FAST XFI 2.0
FiTech
Haltech Elite 2500 / 2500T
Haltech Nexus R3
Haltech Nexus R5
Holley Dominator
Holley Terminator
Link G4X StormX
Link G4X ExtremeX
Link G4+ Thunder
Link G5 Voodoo Pro
Megasquirt 3
Motec
ProEFI
I've ruled some out. They seem like they'd work, but some of the companies are overseas and it looks like support would be difficult, or they seem to target a different set of cars and I'd be kinda on my own to figure things out, or I just don't have confidence that their software is going to be good:
Motorsport Electronics
Omex
Simtek
Syvecs S12
Syvecs S7i
Syvecs S8
Are there others?
AEM Infinity 3
AEM Infinity 5
AEM Infinity 7
Bosch MS 6.1 EVO
Bosch MS 6.2 EVO
Bosch MS 6.3 EVO
Bosch MS 6.4 EVO
Bosch MS 6.4P EVO
Bosch MS 7.4
Bosch MS 7.8
DTA Fast T8+
DTA Fast T12+
ECUMaster EMU Pro 8
ECUMaster EMU Pro 16
ECUMaster EMU Black
Emtron
FAST XFI 2.0
FiTech
Haltech Elite 2500 / 2500T
Haltech Nexus R3
Haltech Nexus R5
Holley Dominator
Holley Terminator
Link G4X StormX
Link G4X ExtremeX
Link G4+ Thunder
Link G5 Voodoo Pro
Megasquirt 3
Motec
ProEFI
I've ruled some out. They seem like they'd work, but some of the companies are overseas and it looks like support would be difficult, or they seem to target a different set of cars and I'd be kinda on my own to figure things out, or I just don't have confidence that their software is going to be good:
Motorsport Electronics
Omex
Simtek
Syvecs S12
Syvecs S7i
Syvecs S8
Are there others?
Last edited by JakeRobb; Aug 24, 2023 at 11:09 AM.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 274
Likes: 68
From: Okemos, MI
I've done a bunch of comparison of the above, and so far the Haltech R3 and R5 are my frontrunners. The Link G5 Voodoo seems good too.
Lots of others are plenty viable, but have significant limitations in terms of datalogging, expandability, and connectivity. The Haltech's in particular look to be the most modern solution, with USB-C and wifi connectivity for tuning, whereas everything else is plain USB-A or in some cases serial or Ethernet, none of which are present on my laptop without an adapter. If I'm going to spend this kind of money on a modern aftermarket ECU, it seems silly to buy something that appears to have been designed a decade or more ago!
I'm sure the Bosch options are amazing, but they're also absurdly expensive ($20k!!), don't appear to actually be for sale anywhere consumer-friendly, and I can't find any information about their use.
Lots of others are plenty viable, but have significant limitations in terms of datalogging, expandability, and connectivity. The Haltech's in particular look to be the most modern solution, with USB-C and wifi connectivity for tuning, whereas everything else is plain USB-A or in some cases serial or Ethernet, none of which are present on my laptop without an adapter. If I'm going to spend this kind of money on a modern aftermarket ECU, it seems silly to buy something that appears to have been designed a decade or more ago!
I'm sure the Bosch options are amazing, but they're also absurdly expensive ($20k!!), don't appear to actually be for sale anywhere consumer-friendly, and I can't find any information about their use.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,303
Likes: 3,619
From: Central Cal.
The only ones I would consider on that list are Motec, Haltech, and lastly Holley just because it's so popular. Do you want real knock control that you can actually monitor and setup accurately/correctly? Motec and Haltech are your only options for that. You will also be piggybacking whatever system you want to use with the stock computer if you want to keep the factory gauges.
I have to say though, for a simple N/A LS3 in an f-body I would be keeping the stock computer as it is plenty capable. And best is certainly up for debate, plenty of upsides/downsides for every option and it really comes down to the tuner doing the work and what they are most familiar with as they are all different.
I have to say though, for a simple N/A LS3 in an f-body I would be keeping the stock computer as it is plenty capable. And best is certainly up for debate, plenty of upsides/downsides for every option and it really comes down to the tuner doing the work and what they are most familiar with as they are all different.
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Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 274
Likes: 68
From: Okemos, MI
The Motec has a really good ecosystem of additional components and stuff for dedicated race cars, but I don't see a reason I'd choose it otherwise. It's above average on price and middle of the road in terms of its ability to bring the car's electronics up to 2023 standards.
I'm not interested in piggybacking. It seems like most of these have sufficiently configurable outputs that they could control the stock gauges, but also they all have full CANbus, which opens up a huge world of gauge possibilities. Custom digital dash anyone?
(As a software engineer, that has enormous appeal. I'd love to build something like this for myself!)I have to say though, for a simple N/A LS3 in an f-body I would be keeping the stock computer as it is plenty capable. And best is certainly up for debate, plenty of upsides/downsides for every option and it really comes down to the tuner doing the work and what they are most familiar with as they are all different.
Hell, sometimes I even think about adding electric motors to the front wheels.
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Launching!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 274
Likes: 68
From: Okemos, MI
Speaking as a software engineer: I feel like any $1000+ option should use wifi or USB-C. If not, it feels like they’re not really trying to build a modern solution.
I’m really curious to learn more about the various software suites. Going to need to spend some time on YouTube.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,303
Likes: 3,619
From: Central Cal.
It was once you mentioned you are a softwear engineer that I saw how you want to go all out in exploiting the full capabilities of the best ECU you can get your hands on. With that in mind I get your frustration in contemporary units not employing some of the bells and whistles that you might be more familiar with than many of the folks on these forums.
Keep us in the loop on whatever you do in this regard, as it appears to me you enjoy exploring the cutting edge in this field.
Best of luck!
Keep us in the loop on whatever you do in this regard, as it appears to me you enjoy exploring the cutting edge in this field.
Best of luck!
TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,178
Likes: 627
From: Florida
The hardware development cycles on ecus is pretty long. The dominator hardware is quite old. the haltech nexus is a relatively new design and probably one of the most modern choices out there.
4th gen Camaros using 0411 ecus use j1850 vpw comms and I’m not aware of any aftermarket ecu that supports that.
I recently made a pcb to talk vpw and can with the intention of building a translator for my haltech to keep the stock dash in my 02 Silverado but the more I have to look at the stupid oil pressure gauge going nuts and all the dumb warning lights I’m realizing how pointless it is not to just use the haltech dash with the haltech ecu.
Fast xfi is old as **** and sucks
holley is like drawing with crayons
all the other obscure ones are either focused on the European market, 4 cylinders or otherwise have tiny user bases which may be difficult to get support.
4th gen Camaros using 0411 ecus use j1850 vpw comms and I’m not aware of any aftermarket ecu that supports that.
I recently made a pcb to talk vpw and can with the intention of building a translator for my haltech to keep the stock dash in my 02 Silverado but the more I have to look at the stupid oil pressure gauge going nuts and all the dumb warning lights I’m realizing how pointless it is not to just use the haltech dash with the haltech ecu.
Fast xfi is old as **** and sucks
holley is like drawing with crayons
all the other obscure ones are either focused on the European market, 4 cylinders or otherwise have tiny user bases which may be difficult to get support.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 274
Likes: 68
From: Okemos, MI
I'm curious what makes you say this / how you know.
Somewhat reductively: It's a computer in a waterproof box with a big pile of inputs and outputs. There's certainly a decent bit of validation testing, and I don't mean to minimize, but what's the complexity? Aftermarket ECUs are technically not road legal, so I don't expect there's any regulatory certification process.
Let's say they wanted to take their existing product and update it from USB 2.0 with a USB-A connector to USB 3.1 with USB-C. You swap out a chipset, do a bit of driver work, build a few prototypes, run them through your battery of tests, iron out a kink or two... then what? I feel like that should be a shorter-than-annual cycle easily.
Even if you wanted to get more ambitious: say you're FAST, and you want to release XFI 3.0. So you take your old 200MHz, serial-only system and update it to a 1GHz processor with faster flash memory and more storage, add wifi connectivity, provide integration for IMU and GPS, support multiple CAN buses... the whole nine yards. It'd be an entirely new device.
I feel like a team of 4-6 software and electrical engineers could manage that in a year or two, assuming they're well funded and have decent manufacturing capabilities available to them. I can say with confidence that this is a reasonable timeline from the software side -- especially given that they already have a working product on which to build. I might be off by a bit on the hardware side, but not by much. FAST XFI 2.0 came out in 2011; it certainly doesn't take twelve years! Even if I'm off by 3x (e.g. it takes six years), with an ecosystem with as many competitors as I listed above, there should be a fair bit of leapfrogging. Instead, we have seventeen competitors (some with multiple products), and it seems like 14-15 of them have been sitting on their laurels for the better part of a decade.
Somewhat reductively: It's a computer in a waterproof box with a big pile of inputs and outputs. There's certainly a decent bit of validation testing, and I don't mean to minimize, but what's the complexity? Aftermarket ECUs are technically not road legal, so I don't expect there's any regulatory certification process.
Let's say they wanted to take their existing product and update it from USB 2.0 with a USB-A connector to USB 3.1 with USB-C. You swap out a chipset, do a bit of driver work, build a few prototypes, run them through your battery of tests, iron out a kink or two... then what? I feel like that should be a shorter-than-annual cycle easily.
Even if you wanted to get more ambitious: say you're FAST, and you want to release XFI 3.0. So you take your old 200MHz, serial-only system and update it to a 1GHz processor with faster flash memory and more storage, add wifi connectivity, provide integration for IMU and GPS, support multiple CAN buses... the whole nine yards. It'd be an entirely new device.
I feel like a team of 4-6 software and electrical engineers could manage that in a year or two, assuming they're well funded and have decent manufacturing capabilities available to them. I can say with confidence that this is a reasonable timeline from the software side -- especially given that they already have a working product on which to build. I might be off by a bit on the hardware side, but not by much. FAST XFI 2.0 came out in 2011; it certainly doesn't take twelve years! Even if I'm off by 3x (e.g. it takes six years), with an ecosystem with as many competitors as I listed above, there should be a fair bit of leapfrogging. Instead, we have seventeen competitors (some with multiple products), and it seems like 14-15 of them have been sitting on their laurels for the better part of a decade.
FormerVendor
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 71
Likes: 4
From: Chesterfield, MI
I've done a bunch of comparison of the above, and so far the Haltech R3 and R5 are my frontrunners. The Link G5 Voodoo seems good too.
Lots of others are plenty viable, but have significant limitations in terms of datalogging, expandability, and connectivity. The Haltech's in particular look to be the most modern solution, with USB-C and wifi connectivity for tuning, whereas everything else is plain USB-A or in some cases serial or Ethernet, none of which are present on my laptop without an adapter. If I'm going to spend this kind of money on a modern aftermarket ECU, it seems silly to buy something that appears to have been designed a decade or more ago!
I'm sure the Bosch options are amazing, but they're also absurdly expensive ($20k!!), don't appear to actually be for sale anywhere consumer-friendly, and I can't find any information about their use.
Lots of others are plenty viable, but have significant limitations in terms of datalogging, expandability, and connectivity. The Haltech's in particular look to be the most modern solution, with USB-C and wifi connectivity for tuning, whereas everything else is plain USB-A or in some cases serial or Ethernet, none of which are present on my laptop without an adapter. If I'm going to spend this kind of money on a modern aftermarket ECU, it seems silly to buy something that appears to have been designed a decade or more ago!
I'm sure the Bosch options are amazing, but they're also absurdly expensive ($20k!!), don't appear to actually be for sale anywhere consumer-friendly, and I can't find any information about their use.
R5 for sure. The torque management system is one of the coolest things to have.
https://byltperformance.com/collecti...s/nexus-r5-vcu
Use code LS1Tech for 10% off
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,758
Likes: 442
So you want it as factory as possible? Easy. Hp tuners. Windows based tablet where radio goes. Bluetooth amplifier. Run hp tuners data logging to the tablet. Or build a fiberglass dash bezel and remove guages. Just Keep guage wiring intact to swap it back for emissions. Done.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 274
Likes: 68
From: Okemos, MI
So you want it as factory as possible? Easy. Hp tuners. Windows based tablet where radio goes. Bluetooth amplifier. Run hp tuners data logging to the tablet. Or build a fiberglass dash bezel and remove guages. Just Keep guage wiring intact to swap it back for emissions. Done.
I want something with wideband closed loop, where I can set my own AFR targets at different RPMs and loads. HPTuners can't do that, as far as I know. I am 99% sure it would be possible if they'd put in the work on a custom OS (and in fact I'm told that someone has done that work; it's just not available commercially). For example, you can wire a wideband in to the EGR sensor circuit, which is unused on '01-02 cars; from there it's only a matter of using that data in the software instead of the narrowband O2 data. If they did that, it would cover 99% of the reason I want a custom ECU. I'd still be interested in aftermarket for a few other reasons -- CANbus integration and datalogging being the most interesting.
I do want to do a custom digital dash someday. It'd be full custom software, because I'm a software engineer and that's where the fun would be for me. That of course means I'd have to custom build some hardware, and for that I'm going to need to partner up with someone with that skillset. I have some friends who could probably do it....
I live in Michigan -- no emissions inspections or anything like that here.
Last edited by JakeRobb; Aug 25, 2023 at 02:57 PM.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 274
Likes: 68
From: Okemos, MI
TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,178
Likes: 627
From: Florida
I'm curious what makes you say this / how you know.
Somewhat reductively: It's a computer in a waterproof box with a big pile of inputs and outputs. There's certainly a decent bit of validation testing, and I don't mean to minimize, but what's the complexity? Aftermarket ECUs are technically not road legal, so I don't expect there's any regulatory certification process.
Somewhat reductively: It's a computer in a waterproof box with a big pile of inputs and outputs. There's certainly a decent bit of validation testing, and I don't mean to minimize, but what's the complexity? Aftermarket ECUs are technically not road legal, so I don't expect there's any regulatory certification process.
During firmware updates on the nexus it updates multiple processors and an FPGA so its not a trivial piece of hardware.
plus those development cycles are very expensive so any company that invests in that NRE is going to keep it going as long as possible.
Last edited by TrendSetter; Aug 25, 2023 at 03:32 PM.