Ok ,I have now got my Car starting great thanks to you guys and especially Billiumss Ok Now when car Gets warmed up 10 to 15 minutes of driving and it starts surging like crazy at a stop light Do I play with Idle Airflow vs. coolant Temp vs. (Gear & PN)? Now How do I experiment with these numbers?Do I go Higher or lower?Maybe If I change the the numbers in gear at said Temps I could fix this problem? I just dont know which direction to go
Thanks alot for all the Help...
Scott

 

Oh yeah The surging starts when I am stopping and almost stopped ,after the down shift just before I stop.Anyone had this prob?
Thanks!

 

What are your IAC counts at? If they're too high, fix that first by opening the throttle more. If they're not you could add a little to the throttle cracker at the speed it's happening at.

After reading gameover's posts on IAC trims, it really isn't a big deal what you set the idle air flow at because it will change to maintain your idle rpm and remember the iac position it took to maintain that rpm. What I would do is look at your MAF readings at idle and put that number in the warm settings for your idle air cells. The reason is if you ever unhook your battery or something your car won't run like complete **** while it relearns the iac trims.

 

Ok Thanks PMack...What IAC counts do you want?I dont understand which one I have to play with,Idle airflow vs.ECT or IAC park position airflow vs. IAT?

 

Mine are just over 30 with the ac off and 50 with it on with no surging. I don't think the park position tables matter with an m6, but i changed both tables just in case.

 

Holy Crap P Mack my numbers arent even close to yours!I guess M6's and A4's are much different? mine are more like 15

 

The numbers I listed were IAC counts (or steps), you can get those by logging. IAC counts just let you know how far the iac is open. I think the 15 you're talking about is your idle airflow in grams per second. My warm idle airflows are set at like 7.3 grams per second.

 

Thanks PMack ,Yes my mistake,I will do the log and see where i am at.My warm airflow is 13.00 gram per second

 

FWIW, my surging is always associated with VE changes.

 

That's interesting. I have always had some surging, and it would maybe change a little with VE changes, but I have never really had a surging condition that I could say really directly related to VE changes.

 

That's strange... Like I said in a few other posts around here, my truck runs the best off of a stock VE table. If I scale down the 400-800 columns more than 95% or so, I get nasty surging and stalling. It seems very sensitive to changes.

 

Hmmm ,so making changes can cause surging?Will it learn it out?

 

He's right about the surging or stalling in reference to the VE table, Not all cars can use the scale back by a percentage procedure posted on this forum. My car for instance ran very lean @ startup so I had to increase the lower VE tables to get it richened up enough to run correctly. When it would stall/surge it the A/F ratio was around 16.5 and it would clear up when the PCM adjusted it back down to 14.7-15.0

 

Soooo...why cars run better with an accurate VE table actually comes down to being within the 25% swing window for trims, and the closer the better because it gurantees faster "converge" times for any driving condition?

 

This is also more pronounced @ lower RPM ranges. If the RPM range is < 2400 RPM the PCM weights the Speed Density Calcs (VE Table) higher than it does the MAF input. So you would see more driveability issues with a VE table that is not as accurate @ Low RPM ranges. As the RPM increases the PCM uses the VE table more as a sanity check as the MAF sensor is more accurate @ higher RPM ranges.

 

Pmack we have the same cam and my iac is set at 8.00 from 133temp and up
id like to see you program

 

Okay... I was running on what I thought was a "good" tune yesterday, and out of the blue I had surging and stalling problems. I also had bad cruise control effect.

My "good" tune, was my stock VE table. Any change I made seemed to effect the idle after about 45 minutes of driving.

I was driving on my stock VE for 75 miles at the time that this started to happen. About the longest I ran a single tune for since I dropped the cam in last weekend.

I went ahead with the common cam recommendation, and hit my lower VE table by 70, 80 and 90 percent. I reset my fuel trims, and then did an idle-relearn (I think). I did this by pulling a few ECM/VCM fuses, flicking the key on and off, inserting fuses, and letting the engine idle for 10 minutes, idle with AC on for 5, and then idle with AC off for another 5. I drove about 200 miles after that, and never once had any surging or stalling problems.

Previously running these same VE specs, I ran into trouble.... So my theory right now is that and idle relearn or fuel trim reset is needed after making VE changes...

 

That is correct...or at least a good 50 mile trip.