EFILive/Flashscan Guys - No More MAF Spreadsheets?
Back to the the point at hand - Black - I appreciate your, and everyone elses, efforts.
Fedex and weather permitting, I will be "autotuning" my VE and MAF tables this weekend. I've also started a complete start-to-finish AutoTune document for EFILive/Flashscan. Once I get done with my tune, and proof read the document, I'll post it up.
Fedex and weather permitting, I will be "autotuning" my VE and MAF tables this weekend. I've also started a complete start-to-finish AutoTune document for EFILive/Flashscan. Once I get done with my tune, and proof read the document, I'll post it up.
Originally Posted by TAQuickness
Back to the the point at hand - Black - I appreciate your, and everyone elses, efforts.
Fedex and weather permitting, I will be "autotuning" my VE and MAF tables this weekend. I've also started a complete start-to-finish AutoTune document for EFILive/Flashscan. Once I get done with my tune, and proof read the document, I'll post it up.
Fedex and weather permitting, I will be "autotuning" my VE and MAF tables this weekend. I've also started a complete start-to-finish AutoTune document for EFILive/Flashscan. Once I get done with my tune, and proof read the document, I'll post it up.
Bill
The way I use the AutoTune feature is as follows. I disable closed loop and change my Open Loop AFR table to 14.63 from 122* up and 70kPa down. From 122* up and 75kPa up the AFR is 12.96. I disable PE by changing all the values to 1.00(14.63) and a MAP to enable of 105. This makes sure PE isn't entered. I then do a log. I have open the MAP with my AutoTune PID and hit as many cells from 800 to 4000 rpms 15-105kPa. I try and get at least over 50-100 cells in each point before I am done. After this, open the log in the scanner. Apply the AutoTune/Ben Filter where it removes data where the TPA moves more then 5% per 100ms. I also enable the "low count" filter in the MAP itself and filter out all data where the value is less then 30. For WOT runs you will need to settle for something in the 10 range unless you want to do numerous WOT pulls. After that I copy the table with labels. Open the Tuner Ve Table and paste by factor with labels. Flash to car and re-do. Auto tune only works when you have a wideband, so don't try it without one. Also, disconnect your MAF from the car before attempting this and make sure the car is at full operating temp.
Originally Posted by Black02SS
The way I use the AutoTune feature is as follows. I disable closed loop and change my Open Loop AFR table to 14.63 from 122* up and 70kPa down. From 122* up and 75kPa up the AFR is 12.96. I disable PE by changing all the values to 1.00(14.63) and a MAP to enable of 105. This makes sure PE isn't entered. I then do a log. I have open the MAP with my AutoTune PID and hit as many cells from 800 to 4000 rpms 15-105kPa. I try and get at least over 50-100 cells in each point before I am done. After this, open the log in the scanner. Apply the AutoTune/Ben Filter where it removes data where the TPA moves more then 5% per 100ms. I also enable the "low count" filter in the MAP itself and filter out all data where the value is less then 30. For WOT runs you will need to settle for something in the 10 range unless you want to do numerous WOT pulls. After that I copy the table with labels. Open the Tuner Ve Table and paste by factor with labels. Flash to car and re-do. Auto tune only works when you have a wideband, so don't try it without one. Also, disconnect your MAF from the car before attempting this and make sure the car is at full operating temp.
Bill
Originally Posted by HumpinSS
max is 500 although no one should go that high. My ve table has values if 118 for the cam i am running
Bill
That is normal if you are seeing at at a high RPM and High MAP. It doesn't really matter when you start the log as you can just add a filter and remove all data where the ECT was below say 178*F. Start and stop driving is fine. That is what you want to be able to hit all of the cells in question. Also make sure you are using the Base Efficiency Numerator Filter. You could just add a filter to exclude all cells with ECT of 178*F and less.
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Originally Posted by Black02SS
That is normal if you are seeing at at a high RPM and High MAP. It doesn't really matter when you start the log as you can just add a filter and remove all data where the ECT was below say 178*F. Start and stop driving is fine. That is what you want to be able to hit all of the cells in question. Also make sure you are using the Base Efficiency Numerator Filter. You could just add a filter to exclude all cells with ECT of 178*F and less.
Bill
Okay, here's a poser for all y'alls...and this is for those that have Long Tube headers only.
Does anyone else see the inherent problems with tuning your MAF table with a wideband? If you are running in closed loop with the MAF, then you are using narrow band O2 sensors for feedback. In fact, that is pretty much the only feedback your engine has. It is using these to maintain stoich.
So if you are tuning your MAF sensor off of a wideband, you are giving the PCM conflicting information. It is kinda like when I went back to closed loop with my speed density setup. I know the car should be running right at 14.62:1 (since my VE table was spot-on in open loop), but it doesn't. It runs right around 15:1. But the PCM thinks it is running at stoich, because that is the only feedback it is getting (from the narrow band O2s that is).
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Does anyone else see the inherent problems with tuning your MAF table with a wideband? If you are running in closed loop with the MAF, then you are using narrow band O2 sensors for feedback. In fact, that is pretty much the only feedback your engine has. It is using these to maintain stoich.
So if you are tuning your MAF sensor off of a wideband, you are giving the PCM conflicting information. It is kinda like when I went back to closed loop with my speed density setup. I know the car should be running right at 14.62:1 (since my VE table was spot-on in open loop), but it doesn't. It runs right around 15:1. But the PCM thinks it is running at stoich, because that is the only feedback it is getting (from the narrow band O2s that is).
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
Okay, here's a poser for all y'alls...and this is for those that have Long Tube headers only.
Does anyone else see the inherent problems with tuning your MAF table with a wideband? If you are running in closed loop with the MAF, then you are using narrow band O2 sensors for feedback. In fact, that is pretty much the only feedback your engine has. It is using these to maintain stoich.
So if you are tuning your MAF sensor off of a wideband, you are giving the PCM conflicting information. It is kinda like when I went back to closed loop with my speed density setup. I know the car should be running right at 14.62:1 (since my VE table was spot-on in open loop), but it doesn't. It runs right around 15:1. But the PCM thinks it is running at stoich, because that is the only feedback it is getting (from the narrow band O2s that is).
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Does anyone else see the inherent problems with tuning your MAF table with a wideband? If you are running in closed loop with the MAF, then you are using narrow band O2 sensors for feedback. In fact, that is pretty much the only feedback your engine has. It is using these to maintain stoich.
So if you are tuning your MAF sensor off of a wideband, you are giving the PCM conflicting information. It is kinda like when I went back to closed loop with my speed density setup. I know the car should be running right at 14.62:1 (since my VE table was spot-on in open loop), but it doesn't. It runs right around 15:1. But the PCM thinks it is running at stoich, because that is the only feedback it is getting (from the narrow band O2s that is).
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
If you force the car into OL by flooring it or by disabling CL with your software, it can operate with the MAF or without it (SD).
That being said, you can tune the MAF based on LTFT/STFT's for part throttle application where the PCM is commanding stoich. But, you'll need the wideband to tune the MAF for OL situations.
If you're seeing false readings from the NBO2's because you have LT headers, try upgrading your NBO2's to the rear vette O2's. They run a little hotter from what I've read on here.
The only thing that still confuses me is you say you're at 15:1. IIRC, LT headers tend to create a richer AFR due to the O2's being moved further back to a slightly cooler location. If that's the case, you should be seing 14:1, not 15:1. So, I'd suggest double checking your wideband setup. When is the last time you did a free-air calibration? Are you sure the voltage being reported from the sensor is being interperted correctly by your software?
Last edited by SSpdDmon; Jul 18, 2005 at 02:57 PM.
I'm well aware of the differences between OL SD, CL SD, and CL MAF. My point is, the PCM is getting false readings from the NBO2s. I do have rear vette O2s on there, and they are still errant. I just think it is something that can't really be done well because of the obvious shortcomings of NBO2s when running headers.
I'm pretty happy with my compromise...it runs lean at cruise, but is dead nuts on at WOT. I was happy enough with my results to not consider running a MAF again...I'll just have to keep an eye on my tune as the weather changes.
I'm pretty happy with my compromise...it runs lean at cruise, but is dead nuts on at WOT. I was happy enough with my results to not consider running a MAF again...I'll just have to keep an eye on my tune as the weather changes.
