VE & MAF: How do the Pros do it??
Originally Posted by 02sierraz71_5.3
Dyno tuning makes no sense for a daily driver as 99.99% of the time your not at wot.
jkyeah, if it was just a track car a dyno tune is good but not great, still have to fix some of the transitions. but a daily driver may get a few WOT runs every day or so, for what? 5-10 sec? then the rest of your hours of driving are all part throttle
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: WV
Originally Posted by RedHardSupra
HA!
my car got a new valvetrain, new cam, some other goodies, and a mail in tune for a 'great' tuner that advertizes here. went to a drag strip to verify the results, car LOST 4mph on a consistent 2.0 short time.
Later I borrowed Autotap from a friend of mine for 2 hrs, car was knocking in the entire range ~4degs.
I checked if i put on the list (of mods) that i have a different MAF, and i did, yet the MAF table i received (as i found out later) was stock. First time i turned MAF off, the car came alive.
i didn't even complain, just got pissed off, read about tuning, picked up HPTuners, and it all works fine now.
to all the mail tuners: **** YOU!
my car got a new valvetrain, new cam, some other goodies, and a mail in tune for a 'great' tuner that advertizes here. went to a drag strip to verify the results, car LOST 4mph on a consistent 2.0 short time.
Later I borrowed Autotap from a friend of mine for 2 hrs, car was knocking in the entire range ~4degs.
I checked if i put on the list (of mods) that i have a different MAF, and i did, yet the MAF table i received (as i found out later) was stock. First time i turned MAF off, the car came alive.
i didn't even complain, just got pissed off, read about tuning, picked up HPTuners, and it all works fine now.
to all the mail tuners: **** YOU!
Greatest quote EVAR!
I just recently had to relocate back to WV (More stock Chevy Trucks here than mountains) Most common setups are bigger tires and exhaust.
I've been using MAF calc., LT/ST method and recalibrating speedometers on a couple trucks here, with a great response so far.
Most owners looking for better MPG and noticable power, without the headaches of being operated on by a Dr. from 6 states away or ordering a "guess chip"
the major problem is that "dyno tuners" are paying for their dyno...paying for their software..paying for their space...paying for their employees....
and they have to do about 3-4 a day just to break even sometimes...
and with that they just dont have time to do a tune the real way
and on top of it..many of them just plain dont know how to do it properly
they usually mess with the IFR table(which is really used to tell your PCM what size injectors you have) and they mess with the PE table(which they modify to get your "13:1"...but they do it by commanding sometimes "1.17 = 12.5:1" or even richer than that).....so they are not properly adjusting anything.
they add spark to the main spark tables when it could just as easily and more safely be added to the spark add vs AFR vs RPM table....adding spark in teh wrong spots on the main spark tables can cause some issues with ping and knock down low where the car is really not looking for it because its set not to trigger down there....
If teh "dyno Tuner" truely cared then they would hire somebody like myself to take care of the tuning....or hire multiple people like myself....
(If any "dyno shops" are reading this and want to hire me as a full time tuner to do complete tunes....I am interested and willing to relocate for the right place and right salary)
I do full tuning...and then I usually try to have the customer schedule about an hour of dyno time to work on finding at what spark advance their car makes the best power...then I go back to the street and make sure its getting proper fuel at WOT with that spark advance and make sure there is no knock...
I have not had an unhappy customer yet....
I dont do mail order tunes for the same reasons..casue a mail order tune is usually not correct for your car as it sits..I havent even seen one yet that is even close...and I am appalled that some of these companies(some of them are sponsors on here) would even send out the tunes that I have had to FIX.
I helped somebody on here that had a mail order tune and wanted to change to SD...bought their own software...and all teh car did was die when they tried to put it in SD...
I looked at the bin file they sent me....
it made me wonder how it even ran with the MAF...cause about 15 tables were all messed up and so far off that it should not have even been running the way that it was.... teh spark timing had about 8* added across the whole table and in some places as much as 12* !!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
I saw a log he did of the car with the MAF and there was massive knock all over the place....
In My opinion people who deliver a product as bad as that...should stick to their good hardware...and stay away from the world of tuning(just because somebody understands the Mechanics of the internal engine parts does not mean they know how to tune a vehicle....
and they have to do about 3-4 a day just to break even sometimes...
and with that they just dont have time to do a tune the real way
and on top of it..many of them just plain dont know how to do it properly
they usually mess with the IFR table(which is really used to tell your PCM what size injectors you have) and they mess with the PE table(which they modify to get your "13:1"...but they do it by commanding sometimes "1.17 = 12.5:1" or even richer than that).....so they are not properly adjusting anything.
they add spark to the main spark tables when it could just as easily and more safely be added to the spark add vs AFR vs RPM table....adding spark in teh wrong spots on the main spark tables can cause some issues with ping and knock down low where the car is really not looking for it because its set not to trigger down there....
If teh "dyno Tuner" truely cared then they would hire somebody like myself to take care of the tuning....or hire multiple people like myself....
(If any "dyno shops" are reading this and want to hire me as a full time tuner to do complete tunes....I am interested and willing to relocate for the right place and right salary)
I do full tuning...and then I usually try to have the customer schedule about an hour of dyno time to work on finding at what spark advance their car makes the best power...then I go back to the street and make sure its getting proper fuel at WOT with that spark advance and make sure there is no knock...
I have not had an unhappy customer yet....
I dont do mail order tunes for the same reasons..casue a mail order tune is usually not correct for your car as it sits..I havent even seen one yet that is even close...and I am appalled that some of these companies(some of them are sponsors on here) would even send out the tunes that I have had to FIX.
I helped somebody on here that had a mail order tune and wanted to change to SD...bought their own software...and all teh car did was die when they tried to put it in SD...
I looked at the bin file they sent me....
it made me wonder how it even ran with the MAF...cause about 15 tables were all messed up and so far off that it should not have even been running the way that it was.... teh spark timing had about 8* added across the whole table and in some places as much as 12* !!!!!!!
!!!!!!!I saw a log he did of the car with the MAF and there was massive knock all over the place....
In My opinion people who deliver a product as bad as that...should stick to their good hardware...and stay away from the world of tuning(just because somebody understands the Mechanics of the internal engine parts does not mean they know how to tune a vehicle....
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
I was approached by a local shop that wanted me to do their tuning in house, as they send out for a mail order tune whenever they do a car.
I tried to convince him to do 'real' tuning, but all he wanted me to do was make a canned tune he could slap into every car he did. 99% of his customer base wouldn't know the difference (mostly vettes) but I declined his offer, even though I'm unemployed at the moment.. lol
It just feels wrong and I couldn't let myself be responsible for that kind of work. I don't know how these guys can sell that stuff with a clear conscience.
I tried to convince him to do 'real' tuning, but all he wanted me to do was make a canned tune he could slap into every car he did. 99% of his customer base wouldn't know the difference (mostly vettes) but I declined his offer, even though I'm unemployed at the moment.. lol
It just feels wrong and I couldn't let myself be responsible for that kind of work. I don't know how these guys can sell that stuff with a clear conscience.
