EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID????
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From: VA
EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID???? OK, feel kinda ignorant...
I've been reading that the O2s should be reading between .89 - .91....
There are about 20 O2 PIDs to select from... Which O2 PIDs do I use?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
I've been reading that the O2s should be reading between .89 - .91....
There are about 20 O2 PIDs to select from... Which O2 PIDs do I use?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
Re: EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID???? EFILiveV5 uses a naming convention for PIDs that allows unique identification of PIDs between different manufacturers and models.
A PID in EFILiveV5 is named using the first three columns of the "PID (F12)" tab page display, like this:
"PID.Manuf.Use"
where
PID is the PID name
Manuf is the manufacturer (i.e. GM)
Use is the usage (i.e. LS1)
That said the PIDs you want are O2 Voltage and are named:
O2S 11.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-1 sensor 1
O2S 12.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-1 sensor 2
O2S 21.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-2 sensor 1
O2S 22.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-2 sensor 2
Although usually you will only be interested in logging both sensors 1 (not sensors 2).
Some LS1 vehicles use a different set of PIDS named:
O2S 11 B.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-1 sensor 1
O2S 12 B.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-1 sensor 2
O2S 21 B.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-2 sensor 1
O2S 22 B.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-2 sensor 2
It is also a good idea to use the "Check PIDs" (Shift-F1) functionality to see which PIDs are supported by your particular vehicle. Each PID that is not supported has a red cross through it's icon. Unsupported PIDs should not be selected, if they are selected they will return random results.
The O2 voltage PIDs are displayed as mv by default - they can be changed to display in Volts by right clicking and selecting properties:
Change the scaling to "Custom"
Set the units to V
Set the factor to 0.0043404
Set the limits:
Display: 0 and 1
Alarm: -1 and 2
Regards
Paul
A PID in EFILiveV5 is named using the first three columns of the "PID (F12)" tab page display, like this:
"PID.Manuf.Use"
where
PID is the PID name
Manuf is the manufacturer (i.e. GM)
Use is the usage (i.e. LS1)
That said the PIDs you want are O2 Voltage and are named:
O2S 11.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-1 sensor 1
O2S 12.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-1 sensor 2
O2S 21.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-2 sensor 1
O2S 22.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-2 sensor 2
Although usually you will only be interested in logging both sensors 1 (not sensors 2).
Some LS1 vehicles use a different set of PIDS named:
O2S 11 B.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-1 sensor 1
O2S 12 B.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-1 sensor 2
O2S 21 B.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-2 sensor 1
O2S 22 B.GM.LS1 = O2 sensor bank-2 sensor 2
It is also a good idea to use the "Check PIDs" (Shift-F1) functionality to see which PIDs are supported by your particular vehicle. Each PID that is not supported has a red cross through it's icon. Unsupported PIDs should not be selected, if they are selected they will return random results.
The O2 voltage PIDs are displayed as mv by default - they can be changed to display in Volts by right clicking and selecting properties:
Change the scaling to "Custom"
Set the units to V
Set the factor to 0.0043404
Set the limits:
Display: 0 and 1
Alarm: -1 and 2
Regards
Paul
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: VA
Re: EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID???? Thanks, Paul!!
Follow-up question: The O2 readings are all over the place... Damn thing looks like an EKG... Should I be looking at 'peaks', 'valleys' or guesstimating an average?
Some of the 'peak' readings (at idle) are fairly flat for about 25 frames or so... These are right around the .90 mark... Is this good?
TIA!
Cheers,
-- CAMSS
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Follow-up question: The O2 readings are all over the place... Damn thing looks like an EKG... Should I be looking at 'peaks', 'valleys' or guesstimating an average?
Some of the 'peak' readings (at idle) are fairly flat for about 25 frames or so... These are right around the .90 mark... Is this good?
TIA!
Cheers,
-- CAMSS
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Re: EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID???? The normal O2 sensor voltage output on a well behaved engine, running in closed loop mode, should oscillate between 100 and 900 mV 1..3 times per second.
There is a lot of contention about whether the O2 voltage is good for anything apart from providing feedback to the PCM for emissions control.
The O2 sensor voltage is ignored by the PCM until the system enters closed loop.
If your O2 sensors are cold (engine just started) it is probable that the sensors will show 900mV at idle. After a few minutes, when the PCM enters closed loop they should start oscillating up and down.
You can check the open/closed status by including the PID named: FUEL SYS A/B.SAE.J1979 (Fuel system status Bank-1 and Bank-2). This will display the fuels system status for both banks just below the tool bar. (Press Ctrl-F12 to toggle the display of the open/closed loop status).
They need to be "closed - loop" before the PCM will use the O2 values.
That being said, at WOT the PCM will take the system out of closed loop and you will see the O2 sensor voltage quite high around 880-900mV for as long as the throttle is wide open.
The topic of O2 sensors has been discussed a lot on this board - try searching for topics about O2 voltage, or open/closed loop. Some people who know more about tuning engines than I, have posted very good info about this topic.
Regards
Paul
There is a lot of contention about whether the O2 voltage is good for anything apart from providing feedback to the PCM for emissions control.
The O2 sensor voltage is ignored by the PCM until the system enters closed loop.
If your O2 sensors are cold (engine just started) it is probable that the sensors will show 900mV at idle. After a few minutes, when the PCM enters closed loop they should start oscillating up and down.
You can check the open/closed status by including the PID named: FUEL SYS A/B.SAE.J1979 (Fuel system status Bank-1 and Bank-2). This will display the fuels system status for both banks just below the tool bar. (Press Ctrl-F12 to toggle the display of the open/closed loop status).
They need to be "closed - loop" before the PCM will use the O2 values.
That being said, at WOT the PCM will take the system out of closed loop and you will see the O2 sensor voltage quite high around 880-900mV for as long as the throttle is wide open.
The topic of O2 sensors has been discussed a lot on this board - try searching for topics about O2 voltage, or open/closed loop. Some people who know more about tuning engines than I, have posted very good info about this topic.
Regards
Paul
Thread Starter
Teching In
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From: VA
Re: EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID???? Hmmm...
So if I understand this correctly, I let the O2s warm up (closed loop), take her for a spin, nail it (WOT - open loop) and my O2s should be in the .88-.90 range?
...But this is potentially moot (?) because the PCM ignores the O2 during at open-loop/WOT state?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Duh,
-- CAMSS
So if I understand this correctly, I let the O2s warm up (closed loop), take her for a spin, nail it (WOT - open loop) and my O2s should be in the .88-.90 range?
...But this is potentially moot (?) because the PCM ignores the O2 during at open-loop/WOT state?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Duh,
-- CAMSS
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From: Clarkston
Re: EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID???? At WOT, the car is in open loop and not using the O2's for fuel management. However, you can monitor them as a tuning reference. (Yes, there is discussion in regards to how accurate they are - I have found them to be consistant though and I use them as a baseline as I change tuning).
I've found the sweet-spot to be .88 to .89 at WOT with no knock retard.
Mark
I've found the sweet-spot to be .88 to .89 at WOT with no knock retard.
Mark
Re: EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID???? Exactly what Sparky said.
Take a look at this for a discussion of open/closed loop.
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ulti...;f=23;t=000566
I'm sure there are others but I could find this one easily <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<small>[ July 30, 2002, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: EFIliveV5 ]</small>
Take a look at this for a discussion of open/closed loop.
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ulti...;f=23;t=000566
I'm sure there are others but I could find this one easily <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<small>[ July 30, 2002, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: EFIliveV5 ]</small>
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Thread Starter
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From: VA
Re: EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID???? Awesome info, thanks, Gents!
I took a cruise today with the following results...
2nd gear, 2950rpms, drop the hammer WOT all the way to redline ...
AFR is 13.0
O2s are at .93 each
Zero knock retard
So can I (should I?) lean things out a bit to get closer to the .89 or .90 range? LTFTs are averaging .39 and -1.18 at a steady cruise (55mph, 1450 rpms, 14.6 AFR). How lean is too lean at WOT???
BTW, I'm having far too much fun here! EFIL5 is some seriously SSWEET software!!!!
Thx!!!
Cheers,
-- CAMSS
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I took a cruise today with the following results...
2nd gear, 2950rpms, drop the hammer WOT all the way to redline ...
AFR is 13.0
O2s are at .93 each
Zero knock retard
So can I (should I?) lean things out a bit to get closer to the .89 or .90 range? LTFTs are averaging .39 and -1.18 at a steady cruise (55mph, 1450 rpms, 14.6 AFR). How lean is too lean at WOT???
BTW, I'm having far too much fun here! EFIL5 is some seriously SSWEET software!!!!
Thx!!!
Cheers,
-- CAMSS
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
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Verdad Gallardo Re: EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID???? IANAET (I Am Not An Engine Tuner) so I will defer answering the tuning questions to someone who knows what they are talking about.
However just one point to remember:
The AFR is not actual AFR it is commanded AFR. It is the AFR that the PCM is "shooting for".
Regards
Paul
However just one point to remember:
The AFR is not actual AFR it is commanded AFR. It is the AFR that the PCM is "shooting for".
Regards
Paul
Thread Starter
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From: VA
Re: EFILive 5 - Which O2 PID???? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sparky:
<strong>You can start working a little leaner at WOT, just watch your KR. You're leaving a little power on the table.
Mark</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How much KR at WOT is too much? I'm assuming that pinging (too lean) would register on the KR scale?
Thx!
<strong>You can start working a little leaner at WOT, just watch your KR. You're leaving a little power on the table.
Mark</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How much KR at WOT is too much? I'm assuming that pinging (too lean) would register on the KR scale?
Thx!
