VE tuning E38/LS2
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Gladstone, Queensland, Australia
VE tuning E38/LS2 Hi I have a question on tuning with EFI live V2. I looked through the forum and links to information and have learnt that the LS2 computer has no VE table and the EFI live makes up a table itself which is then calculated to the computers own mapping.
I like the idea of tuning the older models in SD mode as correcting the fuel trims in the VE table, then changing the PE table constant to allow correct WOT afrs seams like a simple system.
I have heard it is more difficult tuning the later models with E38 as when one change is made to afr then it affects it in other areas on the VE table. The whole ditching of the VE table and having these calculations in the backround has made it more difficult to tune, and evidently people who have been using this software for years still cant work it out...Several turbocharged engines have died from lean spots in the map when so called experienced tuners have been tuning the cars.It seams to me the only way to SD tune one of these is to use WBO2 in PID and run commanded progressive afr changes.
Does anyone comprehend what I am saying? Any competent tuners out there accounted the above problems or have I been fed bullshit from people trying to talk me out of tuning my own vehicle and line their pockets instead....
Cheers
hymey
I like the idea of tuning the older models in SD mode as correcting the fuel trims in the VE table, then changing the PE table constant to allow correct WOT afrs seams like a simple system.
I have heard it is more difficult tuning the later models with E38 as when one change is made to afr then it affects it in other areas on the VE table. The whole ditching of the VE table and having these calculations in the backround has made it more difficult to tune, and evidently people who have been using this software for years still cant work it out...Several turbocharged engines have died from lean spots in the map when so called experienced tuners have been tuning the cars.It seams to me the only way to SD tune one of these is to use WBO2 in PID and run commanded progressive afr changes.
Does anyone comprehend what I am saying? Any competent tuners out there accounted the above problems or have I been fed bullshit from people trying to talk me out of tuning my own vehicle and line their pockets instead....
Cheers
hymey
Search for a thread I started months ago in the advanced tech forum. I believe the title was "complex software and math skills". The responses ranged from idiotic to pure genius, but that thread should anwer your questions.
Yeah the VE coefficients are over most peoples heads which is why we're working on a custom operating system that will do away with the coefficient tables as well as take advantage of the architecture GM has so generously given to us to work with.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14800
Several operating systems are already done & in beta testing and we should start the US cals shortly.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14800
Several operating systems are already done & in beta testing and we should start the US cals shortly.
In the efilive software it is simple. You just select the Virtual ve table that you want to use, via what bar map sensor you are doing and just make a BEN filter table with the same lables and you can use it now just like an older ecm.
The e67/e38 can handle boost from the factory so no custom os seems needed.
The e67/e38 can handle boost from the factory so no custom os seems needed.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Gladstone, Queensland, Australia
In the efilive software it is simple. You just select the Virtual ve table that you want to use, via what bar map sensor you are doing and just make a BEN filter table with the same lables and you can use it now just like an older ecm.
The e67/e38 can handle boost from the factory so no custom os seems needed.
The e67/e38 can handle boost from the factory so no custom os seems needed.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 1
From: Sunny London, UK
Commanded afr still exists, its just that the stock e38 has a big lean step in the ve calcs under certain circumstances. Easily fixed with the right values. For info on why things leaned out for some people do a search on e38 tuning on the efilive forums. efilive has it covered.
Im not sure Id call Jessie and Idiot
He is a veritable wealth of information!
Im not sure Id call Jessie and Idiot
He is a veritable wealth of information! Trending Topics
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Gladstone, Queensland, Australia
I can see the formula. thanks for the link. Seems to be a calculus equation, using the chain rule, obviously for 3D modelling. A big problem when you change the constant value and a magnitude of changes occur in the tune.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Gladstone, Queensland, Australia
Commanded afr still exists, its just that the stock e38 has a big lean step in the ve calcs under certain circumstances. Easily fixed with the right values. For info on why things leaned out for some people do a search on e38 tuning on the efilive forums. efilive has it covered.
Im not sure Id call Jessie and Idiot He is a veritable wealth of information!
Im not sure Id call Jessie and Idiot
He is a veritable wealth of information!
10 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
From: Cloud Nine
Hi I have a question on tuning with EFI live V2. I looked through the forum and links to information and have learnt that the LS2 computer has no VE table and the EFI live makes up a table itself which is then calculated to the computers own mapping.
I like the idea of tuning the older models in SD mode as correcting the fuel trims in the VE table, then changing the PE table constant to allow correct WOT afrs seams like a simple system.
I have heard it is more difficult tuning the later models with E38 as when one change is made to afr then it affects it in other areas on the VE table. The whole ditching of the VE table and having these calculations in the backround has made it more difficult to tune, and evidently people who have been using this software for years still cant work it out...Several turbocharged engines have died from lean spots in the map when so called experienced tuners have been tuning the cars.It seams to me the only way to SD tune one of these is to use WBO2 in PID and run commanded progressive afr changes.
Does anyone comprehend what I am saying? Any competent tuners out there accounted the above problems or have I been fed bullshit from people trying to talk me out of tuning my own vehicle and line their pockets instead....
Cheers
hymey
I like the idea of tuning the older models in SD mode as correcting the fuel trims in the VE table, then changing the PE table constant to allow correct WOT afrs seams like a simple system.
I have heard it is more difficult tuning the later models with E38 as when one change is made to afr then it affects it in other areas on the VE table. The whole ditching of the VE table and having these calculations in the backround has made it more difficult to tune, and evidently people who have been using this software for years still cant work it out...Several turbocharged engines have died from lean spots in the map when so called experienced tuners have been tuning the cars.It seams to me the only way to SD tune one of these is to use WBO2 in PID and run commanded progressive afr changes.
Does anyone comprehend what I am saying? Any competent tuners out there accounted the above problems or have I been fed bullshit from people trying to talk me out of tuning my own vehicle and line their pockets instead....
Cheers
hymey
EFILIVE has made it even easier by takin those coefficients and displaying the VE table they create , then as you modify the VE table it reverse engineers that to create the coefficients to match.
We have been doing just that with speadsheets since the E38 was released but EFILIVE has made it so even a non tuner can get it right now.
Look at the std Holden E38 ve table when it goes into boost , you can see why so called tuners where having problems with the engine running lean and braking on boost tip in , especially on a turbo that was savage.
We have dozens of blown cars running the E38 pcm in speed density mode , datalogging has shown the fuel to be within 1% at every load point when tested at the track and on the road , quite a few of these combos are making in excess of 800rwhp as daily drivers.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Gladstone, Queensland, Australia
I seen that in the efilive forum tomcat. Thanks for the tips. Id imagine then you changed the coefficients in every cell to get the right AFRs?? Bit of a pain but the formula is just a calculus equation. Entering digits in....however is one thing. Understanding the math behind it requires a uni degree(even them some math students struggle with this).
I couldn't imagine efilive would make it difficult to tune the engine simply because we are here to tune cars not learn pHD calculus.
I seen the map above on efilive forum. Big lean hole there! Since doing more research I have learnt the Virtual VE table on efilive is very easy to use and understand. Looking forward to my efilive V2 arriving next week and then starting to tune my VE SS.
Cheers
Hymey
I couldn't imagine efilive would make it difficult to tune the engine simply because we are here to tune cars not learn pHD calculus.
I seen the map above on efilive forum. Big lean hole there! Since doing more research I have learnt the Virtual VE table on efilive is very easy to use and understand. Looking forward to my efilive V2 arriving next week and then starting to tune my VE SS.
Cheers
Hymey
