Worst... Tune... Ever...
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From: Long Island, NY
PE table was nothing crazy. 1.16 across the board. I bumped it up to 1.20 to try an eliminate some knock, and finally settled on 1.18 across the board for now. Without a wideband, I dont want to run it too lean.
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From: Long Island, NY
You would think. I dont know the exact size of the cam as its kept under wraps, but essentially any mid sized cam with trick flow 225 heads and 6.0L should have no problems breaking 450 WHP on a dynojet, even through the 12 bolt. I see this cam has made 430+ on a stock head LS6, and 420+ in an LS1.
I'm sorry to hear about that. Have you two talked to the company that tuned the car?
good luck with it all.
Or HPT allows you to reflash the 2 OS segments and leave the cal block intact. If that's the case it should come with a HUGE expert user warning
Leaving a calibration block alone and putting a new OS in there is a real good way to make tables not be it the correct spots anymore. So the new OS will be reading data it thinks is, say the spark table, but what you have is parts of tables around where the table use to be and some of the old data. Real easy to get tables that look like your screen shots.
OS just says, hey i expect this table to live at 0x(insert favorite hex value) and if you've got garbage there. Well.....
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From: Long Island, NY
So, you either did a full write to the PCM and stuck your file in there in which case that's your tune. Which doesn't sound like that's the case.
Or HPT allows you to reflash the 2 OS segments and leave the cal block intact. If that's the case it should come with a HUGE expert user warning
Or HPT allows you to reflash the 2 OS segments and leave the cal block intact. If that's the case it should come with a HUGE expert user warning
Those tables were screen captured BEFORE writing my OS to the shops config. Its was the shops complete tune. I know what youre saying, but, IMO it would be hard for me to believe random data would fall so close in line. Such as the spark table being flattened out in the top left quarter, or the MAF table that, while it zig zags, it does follow the general upward curve. Seems a little too close to be random data from random locations on the config eeprom.
I think its far more likely that the shop just pasted that block of timing in there to try and eliminate normal cam bucking where spark would come from that part of the table. And Ill bet the MAF was the result of blindly applying AFR error without any averaging or smoothing.
Last edited by GuitsBoy; May 1, 2008 at 06:40 AM.
Wow! In this day and age I am still baffled that "Pro Tuners" still follow these old and bad practices. This is why I started tuning, to give people a good alternative to these tuners. I recently redid a tune for a friend that had start up issues, the car was tuned by what the industry would revere as a top notch tuner, yet I have fixed a lot of his tunes with similar outcomes. The tables looked similar to your scenario! I was shocked! As I tuned the car, my friend said it was driving much smoother and idle much nicer. I was able to fix the cold start as well (I am going to touch base with him in a week). I also take it upon myself to explain to people what the tables do and how they should be altered, so if they go to a different tuner they will be more educated. 
Good to know there are some honest calibrators out there.
Good to know there are some honest calibrators out there.
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I've found that tuning is like doing lawn and landscape care.
Sure you can pay someone to do it, but they are looking at it as a business and time is money. So quick and efficient is all they are after, which serves a need for some. But for the relative low cost and expense of a tuner suite, I'd rather do it myself. Start off with baby steps, do small changes, and that way you know exactly what's being done.
Tuning a car that's had major changes is a long process that is not cost benneficial for many shops to do. So most focus on idle and WOT and hope the in between areas are ok.
Sure you can pay someone to do it, but they are looking at it as a business and time is money. So quick and efficient is all they are after, which serves a need for some. But for the relative low cost and expense of a tuner suite, I'd rather do it myself. Start off with baby steps, do small changes, and that way you know exactly what's being done.
Tuning a car that's had major changes is a long process that is not cost benneficial for many shops to do. So most focus on idle and WOT and hope the in between areas are ok.
I've found that tuning is like doing lawn and landscape care.
Sure you can pay someone to do it, but they are looking at it as a business and time is money. So quick and efficient is all they are after, which serves a need for some. But for the relative low cost and expense of a tuner suite, I'd rather do it myself. Start off with baby steps, do small changes, and that way you know exactly what's being done.
Tuning a car that's had major changes is a long process that is not cost benneficial for many shops to do. So most focus on idle and WOT and hope the in between areas are ok.
Sure you can pay someone to do it, but they are looking at it as a business and time is money. So quick and efficient is all they are after, which serves a need for some. But for the relative low cost and expense of a tuner suite, I'd rather do it myself. Start off with baby steps, do small changes, and that way you know exactly what's being done.
Tuning a car that's had major changes is a long process that is not cost benneficial for many shops to do. So most focus on idle and WOT and hope the in between areas are ok.
I see many, many tunes from other tuners that have nothing done to the Ve other than a dip in the idle region. Fuel trims way out of whack. Surging, stalling, cold start problems, warm start. Almost all of them were close to cured by just dialing in the VE and MAF. Thats what kills me. As easy as it is to do, and it doesnt really take long, that most dont want to spend the 2 hours or so it takes to get em in line.
As for the profession, and time is money thing, we are results driven, as most of the industry should be. Its not good enough to just make dyno numbers. They have to perform well overall. That means be driveable too.
As a tuner, there is no reason you should be worried about spending 2 or 3 hours on a custom tune. absolutely no excuse. is 100 bucks an hour not good enough? I think thats the problem, guys get greedy and try to take shortcuts they think the customer isnt going to find out about. Personally (for example)if I took a built turbo vehicle to a shop for a custom tune, then later found out it was just some standard tune and not even close to what my truck needs... I would go back there and take my $400 out of someones ***.
This industry is littered with crooks that call themselves "tuners."
I'm very thankful I found a guy that can tune a car correctly.... but it took being screwed twice by two different "tuners" to find him....
I just love pissing money away. Don't you?!
I'm very thankful I found a guy that can tune a car correctly.... but it took being screwed twice by two different "tuners" to find him....
I just love pissing money away. Don't you?!
There are a good number of us honest folks out there. Personally I spend entirely way to much time quite a lot of the time. I mean I spent about 5 hours on a stock trailblazer SS. The day before than I spent the entire day on a Z06. In fact if the car has a cam in it I make it mandatory to leave the car. Theres a competitor down the street from me that I know does the same thing.
