First HPDE Checklist -- Thoughts?
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 343
Likes: 1
From: Petaluma, Ca
When I did my first HPDE (Sears Point), the only thing I had done to my car is pads, brake ducts (I just attached them to the lower airdam), had wheels/tires on it already, a 35mm sway bar, and a poly/poly panhard bar which I since replaced (rod/rod adjust.) long ago because the poly deflected enough to let the 315s rub the inner fenders. I brought with me a variety of fluids, rags, tools, etc. Everything fit into one of those big plastic totes that fit in the back seat. That first time was uneventful, but my second time (at Sears) I ran into a problem because I have a 
auto-tragic transmission. When I did the first HPDE I left the trans in drive. When I did the second HPDE I left it in second (stupid move) and overheated the powersteering fluid which popped the cap off (the dip stick was gone) and sprayed the engine compartment with fluid. The one thing I didn't bring was duct tape. Someone who was pitted next to me let me borrow his tape. Amazingly the cap was still in the engine compartment so I was able to refill the fluid and tape (alot of tape) the cap back on and limped home. Overall, I had alot of fun. If I hadn't left the trans in second, I wouldn't have a Turn One pump now!
You don't need a bunch of spare parts for a HPDE if you just use your head!
auto-tragic transmission. When I did the first HPDE I left the trans in drive. When I did the second HPDE I left it in second (stupid move) and overheated the powersteering fluid which popped the cap off (the dip stick was gone) and sprayed the engine compartment with fluid. The one thing I didn't bring was duct tape. Someone who was pitted next to me let me borrow his tape. Amazingly the cap was still in the engine compartment so I was able to refill the fluid and tape (alot of tape) the cap back on and limped home. Overall, I had alot of fun. If I hadn't left the trans in second, I wouldn't have a Turn One pump now! You don't need a bunch of spare parts for a HPDE if you just use your head! I WAS having tire rub issues with the stock panhard bar and crappy knock-off brand shocks (I thought they were stock Decarbons with 50K miles on them however I just learned otherwise when we pulled them this weekend). We installed an UMI on-car adjustible panhard bar, new SLP Bilsteins in the front and rear and rolled the fenders so that should've fixed the tire rub issue.
Are you doing NASA June 18th-19th?
I'll be there racing in American Iron. I'll be pitted with the MTI racing folk, come by and introduce yourself. I always love to see another F body out there!
The only issue I see is the tire rubbing. If it's rubbing on the street, it's sure as hell gonna rub on track. Get those types of issues sorted before showing up. If your around the Marietta area, bring your car by my house and I'll help you do a pre-event check.
As far as spares go. If you bring them, your won't need them! I bring a ton of stuff!
I'll be there racing in American Iron. I'll be pitted with the MTI racing folk, come by and introduce yourself. I always love to see another F body out there!
The only issue I see is the tire rubbing. If it's rubbing on the street, it's sure as hell gonna rub on track. Get those types of issues sorted before showing up. If your around the Marietta area, bring your car by my house and I'll help you do a pre-event check.
As far as spares go. If you bring them, your won't need them! I bring a ton of stuff!
The tire rubbing issue is finally resolved (adjustible panhard, better shocks in the rear and rolled fenders).
I may be in the Marietta area shortly (heading over to my buddies shop to get the new rear tires mounted, balanced and to get a fresh alignment).
My 1st HPDE Experience 1st of all, I'm no expert (only 3 HPDEs) but here's my experience. My 1st was MSR cresson in Oct 2010. Car was an '02 M6 Z28 with bone stock suspension, brake rotors & calipers, 16x8 wheels (the optional polished ones 
) and 245/50R16 tires. The car had bolt-on engine mods (headers, exhaust, lid, etc and a 160deg thermostat). Only "mods" I made specifically for the HPDE were:
Mark.
) and 245/50R16 tires. The car had bolt-on engine mods (headers, exhaust, lid, etc and a 160deg thermostat). Only "mods" I made specifically for the HPDE were:- complete brake fluid flush with ATE Super Blue
- Hawk HPS brake pads front & rear
- "street performance" front end alignment
- HAD A BLAST!
- Learned power steering fluid will come out of the tank even though the cap is there
- Learned my 50 series tires REALLY like to roll over when I enter a corner too fast no matter how much air I put in them
- Listening to the instructors even when what they say seems counter-intuitive I learned how to drive my car better which actually winds up being easier on it
- Did I mention I had a blast!
- Entered the turns slower
- Flushed the power steering system with Redline fluid
- Installed a new power steering cap
- Power steering fluid still likes to come out... just less. May be the fresher fluid, may be better technique on my part
- 50 series tires are just too tall. Could probably learn to treat them right, but even though I'm patient, this was a choice on my part not to be THAT patient!
Mark.
Will do...
Originally Posted by EchoMirage
it will always come out. use a scrunchie or rubberband a rag around the cap and itll be fine.
I'll also add it to my "things I changed because of..." list Mark
once again ive never heard of anyone blowing the cap off the PS. ive raced on slicks with a stock pump, and never blew the cap off. that being said, obviously a flush and fill with synth. fluid is advised; but so is a new upgraded pump. if the OP's pump doesnt whine already, it will after a track day. a turn one or PSC rebuild is a good upgrade/preventative maintenance, and a necessity if youre doing more then one or two events total.
Edit: Forgot to mention that the powersteering cap just disappeared too. I've never heard of drilling a hole in it though. May not be a bad idea...
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Shhhhh, us newbs don't know squat Lmao.
I know I wasn't the only guy this stuff happens to.
The small hole in the cap stops it from breaking and blowing off the cap. Makes a Damn mess don't it?
I blew my powersteering cap off at the end of my second day at the Glen. The seals on the pump actually let go and fluid exploded everywhere. There was enough white smoke that people behind me thought my engine let go. I think I'm actually lucky there wasn't a fire even though I have the vetteworks bracket with a fire extinguisher just in case.
Edit: Forgot to mention that the powersteering cap just disappeared too. I've never heard of drilling a hole in it though. May not be a bad idea...
Edit: Forgot to mention that the powersteering cap just disappeared too. I've never heard of drilling a hole in it though. May not be a bad idea...
Shhhhh, us newbs don't know squat Lmao.
I know I wasn't the only guy this stuff happens to.
The small hole in the cap stops it from breaking and blowing off the cap. Makes a Damn mess don't it?
having a pump failure is one thing. that would of course cause things to blow apart. but it simply flying off all by itself with no other reason...........????
My pump was whining so loud it sounded like a cat in heat.
The reservoir got so hot it melted the wiring harness that runs behind it.
You reckon there was enough pressure in that reservoir to break the locking ears off the cap and send it flying?
Mine did, 3 times.
1st of all, I'm no expert (only 3 HPDEs) but here's my experience. My 1st was MSR cresson in Oct 2010. Car was an '02 M6 Z28 with bone stock suspension, brake rotors & calipers, 16x8 wheels (the optional polished ones ) and 245/50R16 tires. The car had bolt-on engine mods (headers, exhaust, lid, etc and a 160deg thermostat). Only "mods" I made specifically for the HPDE were:
Mark.
) and 245/50R16 tires. The car had bolt-on engine mods (headers, exhaust, lid, etc and a 160deg thermostat). Only "mods" I made specifically for the HPDE were:- complete brake fluid flush with ATE Super Blue
- Hawk HPS brake pads front & rear
- "street performance" front end alignment
- HAD A BLAST!
- Learned power steering fluid will come out of the tank even though the cap is there
- Learned my 50 series tires REALLY like to roll over when I enter a corner too fast no matter how much air I put in them
- Listening to the instructors even when what they say seems counter-intuitive I learned how to drive my car better which actually winds up being easier on it
- Did I mention I had a blast!
- Entered the turns slower
- Flushed the power steering system with Redline fluid
- Installed a new power steering cap
- Power steering fluid still likes to come out... just less. May be the fresher fluid, may be better technique on my part
- 50 series tires are just too tall. Could probably learn to treat them right, but even though I'm patient, this was a choice on my part not to be THAT patient!
Mark.
OK, one more noob power steering pump cap question.
It sounds like many of us have experienced SOME fluid coming out of the cap. One remedy would be to put a rag or scrunchie around the cap to presumably sop up the fluid. Another idea would be to get an extra cap and put a small hole in the top of the cap and then cover it with a rag.
Any reason NOT to put a small hole in the cap? The caps are cheap and I don't mind spending a little extra for that safety of knowing that the pressure isn't going to build up and blow the cap off. Even if it's unlikely that would happen, the only downside to doing this I can think of would be the cost of the cap (which is minimal). Any other reason NOT to drill a small hole in the cap?
As far as the size of the hole -- are we talking pin hole or are we talking about a diameter similar to the size of a standard metal (uncoated) paper clip?
It sounds like many of us have experienced SOME fluid coming out of the cap. One remedy would be to put a rag or scrunchie around the cap to presumably sop up the fluid. Another idea would be to get an extra cap and put a small hole in the top of the cap and then cover it with a rag.
Any reason NOT to put a small hole in the cap? The caps are cheap and I don't mind spending a little extra for that safety of knowing that the pressure isn't going to build up and blow the cap off. Even if it's unlikely that would happen, the only downside to doing this I can think of would be the cost of the cap (which is minimal). Any other reason NOT to drill a small hole in the cap?
As far as the size of the hole -- are we talking pin hole or are we talking about a diameter similar to the size of a standard metal (uncoated) paper clip?
No one will argue you will PS lose fluid.
No one will argue you will generate a ****-load of heat in the pump due to valving and subsequent flowrate.
No one will argue that the PS steering system is a weak point.
But experienced one will argue that buzzing the motor to any where near the rev limiter is a gross and unnecessary abuse of the gear which will create all kinds of problems, which include killing the PS system.
If you are Joe Stud and will certainly set FTD, then go ahead and win practice ... and pay a steep price.
Be smart and you will be just fine.
Fold a towel, cover the cap and hold it place with a scrunchie. Or don't worry about it, don't kill your car trying to prove something that is unprovable, have fun ...
Edit:
As a data point ...
I race in CMC and we are very limited on what modifications we can do. Basically, nothing to a motor or engine management.
I have a Turn One pump (before I discovered PSC), small cooler and over-sized aluminum PS reservoir. And on an LT1, it's even remotely mounted. And because I can't alter the PCM, I'm limited to stock revs, but shift at 5300 because that where the sweet spot is for TQ v HP with my gearing.
All that to say ... I still get fluid out of the reservoir. It's not going to stop.
If you are ejecting caps or pushing seals, there are contributing factors beyond entering in your first DE to cause it. If you buzz the motor over 6K lap after lap after lap after lap, then you have to expect bad things to happen.
But my experience tells me that TQ is what drives you out of corners, not RPM. Short shift and you'll be amazed at how much more speed you can carry down a long straight.
No one will argue you will generate a ****-load of heat in the pump due to valving and subsequent flowrate.
No one will argue that the PS steering system is a weak point.
But experienced one will argue that buzzing the motor to any where near the rev limiter is a gross and unnecessary abuse of the gear which will create all kinds of problems, which include killing the PS system.
If you are Joe Stud and will certainly set FTD, then go ahead and win practice ... and pay a steep price.
Be smart and you will be just fine.
Fold a towel, cover the cap and hold it place with a scrunchie. Or don't worry about it, don't kill your car trying to prove something that is unprovable, have fun ...
Edit:
As a data point ...
I race in CMC and we are very limited on what modifications we can do. Basically, nothing to a motor or engine management.
I have a Turn One pump (before I discovered PSC), small cooler and over-sized aluminum PS reservoir. And on an LT1, it's even remotely mounted. And because I can't alter the PCM, I'm limited to stock revs, but shift at 5300 because that where the sweet spot is for TQ v HP with my gearing.
All that to say ... I still get fluid out of the reservoir. It's not going to stop.
If you are ejecting caps or pushing seals, there are contributing factors beyond entering in your first DE to cause it. If you buzz the motor over 6K lap after lap after lap after lap, then you have to expect bad things to happen.
But my experience tells me that TQ is what drives you out of corners, not RPM. Short shift and you'll be amazed at how much more speed you can carry down a long straight.
Last edited by mitchntx; May 20, 2011 at 09:12 AM.
Mitch is right, I was shifting at 5300-5500 by the tach, I didn't know at that time the factory tach was THAT Slow, but apparently it is. I have since learned real rpm was closer to 6000.
I have since put a PSC pump and cooler on the car and will lower my shift to 5k when I go back to Barber next weekend.
I have since put a PSC pump and cooler on the car and will lower my shift to 5k when I go back to Barber next weekend.
Looks like you got it all covered in your first post man. I have not had PS problems yet. Although I could have sworn 01-02 SS cars had powersteering coolers from the factory. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 828
Likes: 0
From: North Dallas
Yes, they do have a cooler but like most things aftermarket is better.
Even mine with a cooler and PSC pump spits some from under the cap. My buddy with the same type car that turns his engine harder than mine only has a Turn One pump without a cooler, his reservoir stays dry.
BTW, running the fluid hot like that shortens the life of your rack and pinion. Mine went **** up recently, blew the seals out of both sides.
BTW, running the fluid hot like that shortens the life of your rack and pinion. Mine went **** up recently, blew the seals out of both sides.
Mount a decent radiator for a tranmission and you should be good to go.
Even mine with a cooler and PSC pump spits some from under the cap. My buddy with the same type car that turns his engine harder than mine only has a Turn One pump without a cooler, his reservoir stays dry.
BTW, running the fluid hot like that shortens the life of your rack and pinion. Mine went **** up recently, blew the seals out of both sides.
BTW, running the fluid hot like that shortens the life of your rack and pinion. Mine went **** up recently, blew the seals out of both sides.
My race car has a Turn One pump AND a 4 pass cooler. I shift at 5300. Still get fluid weep out of the cap.