Latest track passes.
03-22-2017, 07:47 AM
#22
Hio, I will answer your question in a bit when I get a free sec.
Last edited by Pray; 03-22-2017 at 09:45 AM.
03-22-2017, 09:44 AM
#23
I honestly think at this point I am up against some hidden TQ tables in the ECM or TCM that I can't get to. I have raised the tables I can find up 33% to compensate for my power gains. I have calculated my gains off of the dyno graphs to be between 25-27% by raw data and the rest is a buffer I assume is allotted in the stock tune. But I am hitting a calculated wall. This to me explains why large timing and fueling changes are not showing gains on the dyno. I am at or above the allowed limit so what ever I do now doesn't show up.
With E in the car it doesn't effect the calculated PIDs for tq management since E works in the combustion chamber as a cooler and octane booster to create the power. I am able to run a few more degrees of timing on E which could be the final straw on the calculated TQ equation. As far as I can tell the computer uses MAP, MAF, Spark, IAT temp and to a small degree the Coolant temp to calculated DYNCYL which calculates the TQ model. The DYNCYL line exactly matches my TQ line on the dyno graph as a visual representation of what is going on.
At the track I was seeing some TB closure at the top of the rpm range and on shift recovery. It was closing the blade up to 16% on shifts with all the TCM TQ management turned off. The ECM/TCM shouldn't have the ability to do this at that point. As I added and subtracted fuel in some areas going down the track I was seeing the DYNCYL follow suit showing gains but then the TB blade would close and a bit negating the gains. I didn't have time to raise the ECM TQ limits at the track to see if that took care of it. I don't see the TB closure on the street in 3rd gear pulls and I leave all the TCM TM in on shifts as to not beat up the trans. With the TCM TM all in it drops out the timing during the shift up to 20* and closes the TB blade up to 60% during shift recovery after timing comes back in. This car double whammies you on shifts to protect it's self. I have some more tables to mess with once I get HPT rolling with it's new BETA version. The original adjustments were made on a car with a MSD IM which makes no where near the TQ my ported IM/TB make. Oh the joys of figuring out a new platform.
Once I get a converter in the car I am expecting to see low 1.5 or high 1.4 60fts and an overall reduction of .3 to .4 tenths. That will make this a solid 10 second bolt on car for sure. If I can squeeze out another 15-20rw with TM tuning and cut outs this car is going to be a rocket for what it is.
03-22-2017, 10:25 AM
#24
10 Second Club
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Yea you're getting it handled. I was just curious if you had fixed that yet. When that thing can get to and stay wot i would think it will pick up pretty good.
Phils 5gen had tq limiters everywhere. It was insane. He just found another the other day. He maxes them out now and says eff it. Pre tuning it was seeing up 8* on every shift then slowly bleeding that off. In lower gears there wasn't even time to bleed it off. It would make sense something like that is happening on you end to since you can make a wide range of changes with little to no change in results.
I think the reason alot of these cammed cars don't seem to perform as well as they should has alot to do with some people not getting rid of all the tq limiters.
Phils 5gen had tq limiters everywhere. It was insane. He just found another the other day. He maxes them out now and says eff it. Pre tuning it was seeing up 8* on every shift then slowly bleeding that off. In lower gears there wasn't even time to bleed it off. It would make sense something like that is happening on you end to since you can make a wide range of changes with little to no change in results.
I think the reason alot of these cammed cars don't seem to perform as well as they should has alot to do with some people not getting rid of all the tq limiters.
03-22-2017, 05:26 PM
#25
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Not to thread hijack, Hio, out of curiosity, what RPM do you make peak HP and TQ? I know you know what you're doing so I am genuinely asking because my bro and I are throwing around some ideas for his car and were talking about LS1/LS6 stuff. You said you shift about 6900, IIRC.
03-22-2017, 06:32 PM
#26
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With the rockers it seems to hit peak power earlier. About 6150 and be pretty much flat till 6500 where the pull stopped. Should ran it out a bit more.
With out the rockers it peaked a little later....like 6300 and was pretty much flat till 6700.
With out the rockers it peaked a little later....like 6300 and was pretty much flat till 6700.
03-23-2017, 07:01 PM
#28
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I go through at 6600-6700. Typically shift at 6900. Strange part is all the shift calcs I've used said i should be shifting at 7200-7300. Next time on the dyno I'm gonna run it out to that and see how it looks.
03-24-2017, 10:04 PM
#29
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Pray, there is a Beta for HPTuners right now that's supposed to help with some torque management issues. On the manual D1SC 6G I've helped on it was causing it to shut throttle over 3500rpm on launch. May or may not be related to your issue.
04-01-2017, 07:32 PM
#30
Thanks for the advice.
04-03-2017, 09:01 PM
#31
I wish I was. This car has a wide range that it runs the same in. I have changed fuel a full point on the dyno and it doesn't matter (12.0-13.0), I have changed timing up to 5* on the dyno in certain places and it doesn't matter (22*-27*). I have changed shift points by 800rpm in some gears at the track and it doesn't matter. As long as I have the parameters dialed in for the weather there isn't much to be had. Basically when ever I run the first pass I can count on not running much better than .03 with a lot of work. To make any real gains at the track I have to be on point with launch technique, fueling, spark, and shift points. This may be because I do a ton of street tuning and I pretty much have the car dialed in now but it is what it is at the track.
04-04-2017, 05:24 AM
#33
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=293680#/topics/293680?page=1
04-04-2017, 11:35 AM
#34
I can't click the link but I know what you are saying. The stoich for E is much lower. But everyone that I know that runs it has the best luck at 12.7-13.0. The more guys I talk to though it seems that I am not leaning on it hard enough with timing. I am down about 3-5* depending on the weather.
04-04-2017, 01:03 PM
#35
I can't click the link but I know what you are saying. The stoich for E is much lower. But everyone that I know that runs it has the best luck at 12.7-13.0. The more guys I talk to though it seems that I am not leaning on it hard enough with timing. I am down about 3-5* depending on the weather.
04-04-2017, 07:23 PM
#40
nice, that makes sense in my head. Probs didn't help you any but I think i understand the E vs Gas thing with a WB now. Got a Huron kit I'm putting on now and intend on a forged 370 after "learning" on the stock engine. E is something pretty common locally so it's become an option for what is my toy now and not my dd. Thanks again for answering questions. Still some good guys on here...