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What kind of differential do you have in the rear end? Spools and lockers will cause weird ride height variations when parking at different angles due to loading and binding of the suspension
What kind of differential do you have in the rear end? Spools and lockers will cause weird ride height variations when parking at different angles due to loading and binding of the suspension
I think you are misunderstanding the job of the shock some. The higher spring rate will lessen the reaction of the suspension and take some of the work off the shock. The softer the spring, the more the shock has to work to control it. When you get into the point where you are overworking the shock, then this becomes an issue.
This is backwards. A stiffer spring is more force the shock has to slow down(and usually less room to do it in), where as a softer spring is less force the shock has to slow down (and usually in more room to do it in as well).
With that logic something like a monroe sensatrac would be ideal for high rate springs, when they can hardly take the stock springs. This is also why when many cars use lowering springs and stock shocks the car ends up bouncing. Because the soft stock shocks cannot control (rebound) the higher rate springs.
If they did just the Koni's on a stock spring and sway bar, they would be in a similar situation as you are in. A shock can only do so much to help a spring. For example if you were to put a 500 spring on your existing shock, you would yield a better result from lesser compression and rebound as the shock will not have to work as hard to control movement
Calling you strait out on this one, nice try but completely wrong.
Koni DAs were on 1LE cars with 360lbs/in springs at stock ride height and had zero issues.
I (and many others) have had koni sports on otherwise bone stock suspension and it was fantastic, and honestly one of my favorite setups. The car was ridiculously well balanced and absolutely glued to the road. I could come way too hot into a corner and effortlessly do a four wheel drift while being in control, it was stupid how easy the car was to drive hard and how forgiving it was. No bounce at all (that is lack of rebound) and way way better than stock ride quality. This is on the stock ~300lbs front springs and stock ~115lbs rear springs. Springs are NOT the issue here, a good shock should work great on the stock rates. Swaybars are NOT the issue, a good shock will have the car feeling amazing on stock (in good working condition) suspension.
^ while the above may be the retailer experience, I think the gap here is that how many of the customers actually consult with the retailer vs those that just see vikings being recommended in every thread about suspensions and just go buy them on their own? I also think the margin between owners that can identify driving issues and describe them vs those that would take the same setup and think its awesome is a bite wide.
Forcing a conversation before purchase could alleviate a lot of this if it really is mismatched issue.
Problem is it depends on who you talk to
The guys who haven't tried everything might think that the vikings actually work well for what the OP wanted. The guys who have tried everything know they wouldn't work for him. Ever see Strano sell vikings to someone who wants anything other than to drag race? Hes been on them (as well as just about everything else on the market) and wasn't impressed.
Its a shame i didnt waste more money on the vikings and buy bigger front springs for the vikings to end the spring debate. Had it not been for the bouncy floaty spot i may have done it. But i knew from there they werent goona work. Idc if it cornered great, nobody wants to be seen bouncing up and down the road like a ricer.
Last edited by Floorman279; May 8, 2017 at 06:15 PM.
Reason: ......
JD I'm a bit confused when you say a stiffer spring would be harder to control for the shock I'm assuming you mean on rebound? It doesn't make sense to me that a spring requiring more force to compress would be harder on the shock in compression. Now it does make sense that the release of that force would be harder to control.
Well since I was "called out" I'll just leave a couple things here for consideration. Since Vikings are not a good street or handling shock. I guess all these guys need to re-think their strategies
Also, the job of the shock is to control the movement of the spring/suspension, not carry the load of it. Shock valving can effectively increase wheel rate in small amounts, but should not be used for large imbalances. Using a good shock on a stock soft spring is a band-aid. Can it be done? Sure. Will you get the best or even what is considered good results from it? No. So no, I am not backwards.
It's also hard to try to set the standard of what is a good or bad piece based on the opinion of 1 driver out of the dozens who have them that actually work. Its the same as the argument of the subframe connectors that the same driver does not believe in, even though they are proven time and time and time again.
Again I say, it is not the brand of the part, it is in the setup. I will not turn this into a further argument. I have said my peace on this matter and will leave it at this
JD I'm a bit confused when you say a stiffer spring would be harder to control for the shock I'm assuming you mean on rebound? It doesn't make sense to me that a spring requiring more force to compress would be harder on the shock in compression. Now it does make sense that the release of that force would be harder to control.
Yes Im talking about rebound.
When a shock doesn't have enough rebound control it will cause the car to bounce and feel floaty, like in the OPs case.
Well since I was "called out" I'll just leave a couple things here for consideration. Since Vikings are not a good street or handling shock. I guess all these guys need to re-think their strategies
So a small handful of guys have run some evens with custom valved Vikings, with what seem to be very vague classes this is not impressive or relevant.
Willing to bet the said guys are also sponsored by them, rather than actually choosing to run them.
Also, the job of the shock is to control the movement of the spring/suspension, not carry the load of it.
What does this have to do with anything we are talking about?
Shock valving can effectively increase wheel rate in small amounts, but should not be used for large imbalances. Using a good shock on a stock soft spring is a band-aid. Can it be done? Sure. Will you get the best or even what is considered good results from it? No. So no, I am not backwards.
You were backwards and basically lied, and can't deny it now. Koni SAs on stock springs work very well, and wouldn't have left the OP with is lackluster results.
It's also hard to try to set the standard of what is a good or bad piece based on the opinion of 1 driver out of the dozens who have them that actually work. Its the same as the argument of the subframe connectors that the same driver does not believe in, even though they are proven time and time and time again.
Show me ANY actual proof that they stiffen the 4th gen to a noticeable degree, I want to see numbers on a chassis machine, not your neighbors cousins car that claims he felt a difference.
Again I say, it is not the brand of the part, it is in the setup. I will not turn this into a further argument. I have said my peace on this matter and will leave it at this
Because you have nothing, like usual.
Hey BTW you guys still using the UMIPARTS.com link for your website?
it always frustrates me when this debate comes up and a sponsor starts posting competition stats. Handling in the terms of a street car is very subjective and providing results from competitions from cars using similar products of the same brand is like quoting "Art of War" to a pacifist. They are competing interests that dont tell the same story.
Viking sells different model shocks, some are really just for drag racing. Maybe OP needs to check which ones he got and talk to Chris at Viking. He's a pretty nice guy.
I just installed some Viking drag rears on my DD 5th gen. Playing with them I hook even better on the street on my DD MH DRs. But with the settings I have them on now the car is not a handling machine.
Bmr......all i can say is unbelievable. This whole thread was about my opinion of the vikings "warriors". Its pretty obvious thats what im talking about, since i mentioned i paid $1200. Nobody mentioned crusaders in this thread except possibly briefly saying yes viking does make shocks based purely on handling, that are custom valved. What contribution did ur fancy pictures do to this thread when ur talking about a completely different shock? Nobody ever said the crusaders were good or bad in this thread. Lol wow.
Prostock, i got warriors, did not feel i got what i was "TOLD" i would get. Having a convo with the manufacturer isnt goona help me any. Even if i still had them, no amounts orf rebound or compression would have fixed my problems, contrary to what any sponsor says. The spring may have masked the problem and made it better, but the simple fact that they are not gas charged just pretty much settles it. I honestly wish i would have known how important that is in a street shock, rather than controlling rebound by reducing flow.
So a small handful of guys have run some evens with custom valved Vikings, with what seem to be very vague classes this is not impressive or relevant.
Willing to bet the said guys are also sponsored by them, rather than actually choosing to run them.
What does this have to do with anything we are talking about?
You were backwards and basically lied, and can't deny it now. Koni SAs on stock springs work very well, and wouldn't have left the OP with is lackluster results.
Show me ANY actual proof that they stiffen the 4th gen to a noticeable degree, I want to see numbers on a chassis machine, not your neighbors cousins car that claims he felt a difference.
Because you have nothing, like usual.
Hey BTW you guys still using the UMIPARTS.com link for your website?
You sound like a little baby in pampers stomping his foot cause his momma didnt bring his milk fast enough. Dude stop. BMRs responses have been appropriate/intelligent for the thread. You're just trying anything to make yourself look better.
Originally Posted by Floorman279
Bmr......all i can say is unbelievable. This whole thread was about my opinion of the vikings "warriors". Its pretty obvious thats what im talking about, since i mentioned i paid $1200. Nobody mentioned crusaders in this thread except possibly briefly saying yes viking does make shocks based purely on handling, that are custom valved. What contribution did ur fancy pictures do to this thread when ur talking about a completely different shock? Nobody ever said the crusaders were good or bad in this thread. Lol wow.
Prostock, i got warriors, did not feel i got what i was "TOLD" i would get. Having a convo with the manufacturer isnt goona help me any. Even if i still had them, no amounts orf rebound or compression would have fixed my problems, contrary to what any sponsor says. The spring may have masked the problem and made it better, but the simple fact that they are not gas charged just pretty much settles it. I honestly wish i would have known how important that is in a street shock, rather than controlling rebound by reducing flow.
God I love this part. This is where you buy the wrong thing because "someone" recommended you the wrong thing (poor you), then you rant off like you're some kind of suspension expert!!!! Amazing. Dumb when you need sympathy, smart when you wanna be right!!!
They should really advertise the crusaders more. I wish i woulda went with the crusaders on the 56 belair now. I knew they had other lines but the warriors is all they seem to want to sell.
Can the warriors be revamped with crusader valving? Is there a cost difference between warriors and crusaders?
Here's a link to the shock dynos of the different viking shocks.
They should really advertise the crusaders more. I wish i woulda went with the crusaders on the 56 belair now. I knew they had other lines but the warriors is all they seem to want to sell.
Can the warriors be revamped with crusader valving? Is there a cost difference between warriors and crusaders?
Here's a link to the shock dynos of the different viking shocks.
You sound like a little baby in pampers stomping his foot cause his momma didnt bring his milk fast enough. Dude stop. BMRs responses have been appropriate/intelligent for the thread. You're just trying anything to make yourself look better.
God I love this part. This is where you buy the wrong thing because "someone" recommended you the wrong thing (poor you), then you rant off like you're some kind of suspension expert!!!! Amazing. Dumb when you need sympathy, smart when you wanna be right!!!
Rofl. Unsure of how you can defend them when more than half their replies in this thread have related to other parts being the problem.
And its not like someone sold me the wrong thing, i mean they did, but its that most of these sponsors seem to think that warriors have great handling/street characteristics when they physically cant do that based on being a drag shock design inside and out. Ive learned that now, wish i had before. the whole purpose of my thread was to potentially steer others who are in the market for new shocks who are goona want any kind of good or great street characteristics into considering something different than warriors. Im glad ur happy and didnt spend good money twice. Not being a smartass i am. I could have gotten ls6 heads with that money.
Hio, yea u can send warriors out to be revalved for crusaders. Id assume the sponsors dont go to crusaders because they truely are a much tougher sell for the verage guy looking for better handling because they are upwards of $1700 plus. Tough to sell when proven koni sa are 1150 with springs, same price as warriors. But now you can win the sales battle with "for the same price u can customize your ride height with vikings".
Ok...worse come to worse get them revalved and report back.....lol
Originally Posted by BMR Sales2
The Crusader valving is about a $175 upcharge per pair on most shocks. This includes any valving option. Handling, comfort, or drag.
Ok....cool. then for $1200 floorman shoulda got crusader valving. The main reason i went with vikings on the Belair was price point. We only give like $680 for all 4 shipped. I even got a custom lenght in the rear and had the eyes changed to bushings. Hell most other even ok shocks for it was at least $100 apiece w/o shipping.
I sold them. Didnt wanna give viking anymore money. I knew crusaders existed. Just took my buisness to sam strano. Crusader valving new is a good chunk more than 1200.
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