my review of vikings, not good
05-12-2017, 07:22 AM
#81
Granted, there are better out there, especially gas charged, but the QA1s and / or Vikings aren't bad. In a decently set up car, with the various bits dialed in, they will do their part. The video below is a couple years old (car was powered with a stock LS1 then), but it should hopefully show these shocks in a good light. The first lap, in fact, beat the SCCA American Sedan record for the course by .3 seconds.
As always, your mileage may vary. From my perspective, the point where this style of shock begins to fall short is with extended pounding, where aeration of the oil begins to impact things.
As always, your mileage may vary. From my perspective, the point where this style of shock begins to fall short is with extended pounding, where aeration of the oil begins to impact things.
05-12-2017, 06:56 PM
#83
How on earth did I miss this?
For now, I'm going to hit and run and chime in on a few things I saw in this thread that are problematic all the way to just wrong.
However said that the shock has to work harder on a softer spring, is insane and that's something you need to consider when you start taking advice from people. A softer spring stores LESS energy when compressed than a stiffer one does. More stored energy needs more rebound control to damp it. So that one is just laughable.
As for all the people running Vikings and the posts thrown up about them. Yeah, called marketing. I will start with the one I know best, Matthew Braun since I race against him in SSR with my Corvette. He's fast, won a lot as have I. But not on those shocks. The event he won that's listed there... wasn't the most deeply attended event ever. I ran him the next week though: https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net...pdf?1492096681 See the bottom of page 5. I wasn't on Vikings. And I know why he's running those shocks, because of a relationship with them from driving another car. And they help him out, if you know what I mean. And that's the rub with a LOT of these cars that run certain parts. A lot of stuff is given away for cheap, or sometimes for free to some people because then they can then go and say "see, look how good our stuff is he is running it". Money makes the world go round as they say. I've been offered free stuff and in the past took some of it, but quickly found that I was much better off making my own choices if I wanted to win and get the car working the way I wanted it too.
Looking at some of the other cars on that list... yeah. They look pretty but shouldn't be held up as a gold standard for anything.
I should go back a step or 5 here. The original poster here, we spend a lot of time on the phone. A LOT. It was clear to me that he wasn't happy with his shocks. And we in fact discussed settings and lots of things because I was trying, unlike some other shops, to NOT have him spend a lot of money to fix his mess. But in the end, the shocks are what they are.
Can someone go fast on **** shocks? Yes. Does the car work better, become easier to drive, and ride better on something more? Yes there too. How many people here have run more than one setup? Hmmmm? I mean floorman clearly has, and I have run more than you can count. Who else? And no, QA1 and Viking don't count as two as they are one in the same. And in fact here's one. AFCO's twin tubes... yeah, that's why I don't use them and told UMI from the start I wasn't going to, as they are a similar design (though a little better) to those others. At least the rebound damping is changed via the piston flow vs. a bypass like QA1/Viking.
And as for shock fade. It happens, it's real. I might not make you go 2 seconds a lap slower all at once but it does cause the shock to now work as well later in a session, be it on track of 2 hours down the road as when the shock was cool. And non-gas charged shocks fade the most. What is fade? It's the oil foaming from heat, the gas pressure acts the same way a radiator cap does to help keep that down. And when you get foaming or aerated oil it doesn't damp as well because air doesn't offer resistance to the piston of the shock. And then there is the durability side. Shocks that fade/foam/aerate, will fail sooner too, because air bubble don't lubricate the seals in the shock very well either and they will get chewed up over time.
Is there more? I'm sure there is more. But it's Friday, I'm outta here. Check back later to see what other comical things have been written.
For now, I'm going to hit and run and chime in on a few things I saw in this thread that are problematic all the way to just wrong.
However said that the shock has to work harder on a softer spring, is insane and that's something you need to consider when you start taking advice from people. A softer spring stores LESS energy when compressed than a stiffer one does. More stored energy needs more rebound control to damp it. So that one is just laughable.
As for all the people running Vikings and the posts thrown up about them. Yeah, called marketing. I will start with the one I know best, Matthew Braun since I race against him in SSR with my Corvette. He's fast, won a lot as have I. But not on those shocks. The event he won that's listed there... wasn't the most deeply attended event ever. I ran him the next week though: https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net...pdf?1492096681 See the bottom of page 5. I wasn't on Vikings. And I know why he's running those shocks, because of a relationship with them from driving another car. And they help him out, if you know what I mean. And that's the rub with a LOT of these cars that run certain parts. A lot of stuff is given away for cheap, or sometimes for free to some people because then they can then go and say "see, look how good our stuff is he is running it". Money makes the world go round as they say. I've been offered free stuff and in the past took some of it, but quickly found that I was much better off making my own choices if I wanted to win and get the car working the way I wanted it too.
Looking at some of the other cars on that list... yeah. They look pretty but shouldn't be held up as a gold standard for anything.
I should go back a step or 5 here. The original poster here, we spend a lot of time on the phone. A LOT. It was clear to me that he wasn't happy with his shocks. And we in fact discussed settings and lots of things because I was trying, unlike some other shops, to NOT have him spend a lot of money to fix his mess. But in the end, the shocks are what they are.
Can someone go fast on **** shocks? Yes. Does the car work better, become easier to drive, and ride better on something more? Yes there too. How many people here have run more than one setup? Hmmmm? I mean floorman clearly has, and I have run more than you can count. Who else? And no, QA1 and Viking don't count as two as they are one in the same. And in fact here's one. AFCO's twin tubes... yeah, that's why I don't use them and told UMI from the start I wasn't going to, as they are a similar design (though a little better) to those others. At least the rebound damping is changed via the piston flow vs. a bypass like QA1/Viking.
And as for shock fade. It happens, it's real. I might not make you go 2 seconds a lap slower all at once but it does cause the shock to now work as well later in a session, be it on track of 2 hours down the road as when the shock was cool. And non-gas charged shocks fade the most. What is fade? It's the oil foaming from heat, the gas pressure acts the same way a radiator cap does to help keep that down. And when you get foaming or aerated oil it doesn't damp as well because air doesn't offer resistance to the piston of the shock. And then there is the durability side. Shocks that fade/foam/aerate, will fail sooner too, because air bubble don't lubricate the seals in the shock very well either and they will get chewed up over time.
Is there more? I'm sure there is more. But it's Friday, I'm outta here. Check back later to see what other comical things have been written.
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05-12-2017, 07:27 PM
#85
TECH Senior Member
Calling out lies, blatantly incorrect information and general scumbaggery is sounding like a baby?
05-12-2017, 07:30 PM
#86
Wrong is wrong, period. I'd invite anyone looking to run their shocks way soft with stiff springs to come run around some corners with me, and try and keep up.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
05-12-2017, 07:58 PM
#88
That's great but not the use in question here. And fwiw, what causes the car to do that is little rebound and that's not hard to come up with really. As shocks wear they lose rebound damping, and the floating you all feel in these cars stock? Lack of rebound. Which is why the nose tends to lift so much on a stock car when you hit it.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
05-13-2017, 07:34 PM
#90
That's great but not the use in question here. And fwiw, what causes the car to do that is little rebound and that's not hard to come up with really. As shocks wear they lose rebound damping, and the floating you all feel in these cars stock? Lack of rebound. Which is why the nose tends to lift so much on a stock car when you hit it.
Speed tigger, hes saying the 1.2 60 foot is from the power of the car, and the shocks help a good amount. Having little rebound control causes the shock to unload, so when u launch the nose shoots up, aka ur shock unloading and pushing the car up. Im happy u like your vikings. Ur using them how they are meant to be used.
I think its funny that this thread has been up for a week, and probably 6 or more vendors on here sell vikings, and only 1 of those guys have stopped by to say hello and attempt to defend the warriors. Well they stuck around for a little and then ran away, but not before offering an attempted sale of crusader valving. I doubt any other sponsors will be in here defending the warriors and their handling abilities. I mean were already up to 2000 views so we know everyone has seen it.
05-13-2017, 10:15 PM
#92
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ok I will join in here.
I have had the following:
1) stock springs, stock shocks, stock bars
2) eibach prokit springs, stock shocks, stock bars
3) QA1's, stock rear springs, then BMR rear springs, stock bars
4) eibachs, kyb adj shocks, stock bars
5) stock springs, kyb's, strano bars
6) stock springs, Koni's, strano bars
7) 350 Viking front spring, stock rear spring, Viking Warriors, strano bars
As you can see I have tried a lot and each had their +/- 's
My OPINION is this
Versions 5-7 were the best for both street handling and strip duty. Versions 1-4 were not. Springs any stiffer than stock (usually progressive rates) were just not fun to drive around town. Obviously the shocks not able to control them was part of it. Lots of ricer bounce with 1-4. You can also see that most of the positives I experienced had to do with the Strano Bars.
There is no doubt that version 6 was the best for handling and street duty. The reason I ditched the koni's was two fold. One, I wanted more adjustability for the strip, and Two, Koni as a company sucks a bag of dicks. The shocks failed with stock springs, and they offered to check them with pressure/help from Sam. They basically determined the adjusters broke, but the shock still worked. Since they took them apart and wouldn't reassemble, basically forcing me to by new. Well then I'm out F'n D'bags.
Finally, Version 7, I chose this based on all my previous experience and what I wanted to do with the car. Plus viking is local. I wanted a firm but not harsh ride, planted handling, adjustability and flexibility to street drive, drag race, and road race. Basically the same as version 6 but with more strip adjustment to lower my 60'. I knew going in that it would not be the same as the konis due to gas vs oil shocks. This is a close as I could get it, and I feel its pretty close. It has lowered my 60'. Street driving is good, and I have noticed that setting the rebound too high will also create the ricer bounce. So maybe that was part of the OP issue. I'm not sure why the OP experienced floating, the only time I get that is when the settings are all at 0, it rides like a caddy. I have yet to get it to the road course.
I have had the following:
1) stock springs, stock shocks, stock bars
2) eibach prokit springs, stock shocks, stock bars
3) QA1's, stock rear springs, then BMR rear springs, stock bars
4) eibachs, kyb adj shocks, stock bars
5) stock springs, kyb's, strano bars
6) stock springs, Koni's, strano bars
7) 350 Viking front spring, stock rear spring, Viking Warriors, strano bars
As you can see I have tried a lot and each had their +/- 's
My OPINION is this
Versions 5-7 were the best for both street handling and strip duty. Versions 1-4 were not. Springs any stiffer than stock (usually progressive rates) were just not fun to drive around town. Obviously the shocks not able to control them was part of it. Lots of ricer bounce with 1-4. You can also see that most of the positives I experienced had to do with the Strano Bars.
There is no doubt that version 6 was the best for handling and street duty. The reason I ditched the koni's was two fold. One, I wanted more adjustability for the strip, and Two, Koni as a company sucks a bag of dicks. The shocks failed with stock springs, and they offered to check them with pressure/help from Sam. They basically determined the adjusters broke, but the shock still worked. Since they took them apart and wouldn't reassemble, basically forcing me to by new. Well then I'm out F'n D'bags.
Finally, Version 7, I chose this based on all my previous experience and what I wanted to do with the car. Plus viking is local. I wanted a firm but not harsh ride, planted handling, adjustability and flexibility to street drive, drag race, and road race. Basically the same as version 6 but with more strip adjustment to lower my 60'. I knew going in that it would not be the same as the konis due to gas vs oil shocks. This is a close as I could get it, and I feel its pretty close. It has lowered my 60'. Street driving is good, and I have noticed that setting the rebound too high will also create the ricer bounce. So maybe that was part of the OP issue. I'm not sure why the OP experienced floating, the only time I get that is when the settings are all at 0, it rides like a caddy. I have yet to get it to the road course.
05-13-2017, 11:28 PM
#93
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Nice to hear your input no juice. Stock springs/konis/strano bars is what i changed to on my car. Glad to hear it worked well. Sorry to hear koni is a pita to work with.
Loke you my next step if something happens to my konis is to likely go viking. But i will try the crusaders.
Loke you my next step if something happens to my konis is to likely go viking. But i will try the crusaders.
05-14-2017, 10:40 AM
#94
ok I will join in here.
I have had the following:
1) stock springs, stock shocks, stock bars
2) eibach prokit springs, stock shocks, stock bars
3) QA1's, stock rear springs, then BMR rear springs, stock bars
4) eibachs, kyb adj shocks, stock bars
5) stock springs, kyb's, strano bars
6) stock springs, Koni's, strano bars
7) 350 Viking front spring, stock rear spring, Viking Warriors, strano bars
As you can see I have tried a lot and each had their +/- 's
My OPINION is this
Versions 5-7 were the best for both street handling and strip duty. Versions 1-4 were not. Springs any stiffer than stock (usually progressive rates) were just not fun to drive around town. Obviously the shocks not able to control them was part of it. Lots of ricer bounce with 1-4. You can also see that most of the positives I experienced had to do with the Strano Bars.
There is no doubt that version 6 was the best for handling and street duty. The reason I ditched the koni's was two fold. One, I wanted more adjustability for the strip, and Two, Koni as a company sucks a bag of dicks. The shocks failed with stock springs, and they offered to check them with pressure/help from Sam. They basically determined the adjusters broke, but the shock still worked. Since they took them apart and wouldn't reassemble, basically forcing me to by new. Well then I'm out F'n D'bags.
Finally, Version 7, I chose this based on all my previous experience and what I wanted to do with the car. Plus viking is local. I wanted a firm but not harsh ride, planted handling, adjustability and flexibility to street drive, drag race, and road race. Basically the same as version 6 but with more strip adjustment to lower my 60'. I knew going in that it would not be the same as the konis due to gas vs oil shocks. This is a close as I could get it, and I feel its pretty close. It has lowered my 60'. Street driving is good, and I have noticed that setting the rebound too high will also create the ricer bounce. So maybe that was part of the OP issue. I'm not sure why the OP experienced floating, the only time I get that is when the settings are all at 0, it rides like a caddy. I have yet to get it to the road course.
I have had the following:
1) stock springs, stock shocks, stock bars
2) eibach prokit springs, stock shocks, stock bars
3) QA1's, stock rear springs, then BMR rear springs, stock bars
4) eibachs, kyb adj shocks, stock bars
5) stock springs, kyb's, strano bars
6) stock springs, Koni's, strano bars
7) 350 Viking front spring, stock rear spring, Viking Warriors, strano bars
As you can see I have tried a lot and each had their +/- 's
My OPINION is this
Versions 5-7 were the best for both street handling and strip duty. Versions 1-4 were not. Springs any stiffer than stock (usually progressive rates) were just not fun to drive around town. Obviously the shocks not able to control them was part of it. Lots of ricer bounce with 1-4. You can also see that most of the positives I experienced had to do with the Strano Bars.
There is no doubt that version 6 was the best for handling and street duty. The reason I ditched the koni's was two fold. One, I wanted more adjustability for the strip, and Two, Koni as a company sucks a bag of dicks. The shocks failed with stock springs, and they offered to check them with pressure/help from Sam. They basically determined the adjusters broke, but the shock still worked. Since they took them apart and wouldn't reassemble, basically forcing me to by new. Well then I'm out F'n D'bags.
Finally, Version 7, I chose this based on all my previous experience and what I wanted to do with the car. Plus viking is local. I wanted a firm but not harsh ride, planted handling, adjustability and flexibility to street drive, drag race, and road race. Basically the same as version 6 but with more strip adjustment to lower my 60'. I knew going in that it would not be the same as the konis due to gas vs oil shocks. This is a close as I could get it, and I feel its pretty close. It has lowered my 60'. Street driving is good, and I have noticed that setting the rebound too high will also create the ricer bounce. So maybe that was part of the OP issue. I'm not sure why the OP experienced floating, the only time I get that is when the settings are all at 0, it rides like a caddy. I have yet to get it to the road course.
05-14-2017, 10:41 AM
#95
Nice to hear your input no juice. Stock springs/konis/strano bars is what i changed to on my car. Glad to hear it worked well. Sorry to hear koni is a pita to work with.
Loke you my next step if something happens to my konis is to likely go viking. But i will try the crusaders.
Loke you my next step if something happens to my konis is to likely go viking. But i will try the crusaders.
Dont get the crusaders without considering the umi/stranos for 1850 shipped
05-14-2017, 10:45 AM
#96
The old "90/10" shock thinking of full loose on the front extension is only good for slow cars like 12 second deals or maybe a no prep situation.
I help people all the time at the track who try to use the old school slow car settings on a car with real power. Some don't believe it until they try it. Then they can't thank you enough.
05-14-2017, 01:24 PM
#97
TECH Senior Member
The reason I ditched the koni's was two fold. One, I wanted more adjustability for the strip, and Two, Koni as a company sucks a bag of dicks. The shocks failed with stock springs, and they offered to check them with pressure/help from Sam. They basically determined the adjusters broke, but the shock still worked. Since they took them apart and wouldn't reassemble, basically forcing me to by new. Well then I'm out F'n D'bags.
05-14-2017, 01:30 PM
#98
TECH Senior Member
Well, if that was his thinking on the front shocks, it is exactly backwards from what we do on a fast car. On a fast car we set the shocks to very tight on the extension(rebound). This actually helps keep the chassis loaded as the front end rises and reduces wheel stands so the car does not drag the bumper on the launch.
The old "90/10" shock thinking of full loose on the front extension is only good for slow cars like 12 second deals or maybe a no prep situation.
I help people all the time at the track who try to use the old school slow car settings on a car with real power. Some don't believe it until they try it. Then they can't thank you enough.
The old "90/10" shock thinking of full loose on the front extension is only good for slow cars like 12 second deals or maybe a no prep situation.
I help people all the time at the track who try to use the old school slow car settings on a car with real power. Some don't believe it until they try it. Then they can't thank you enough.
05-14-2017, 01:32 PM
#99
Well, if that was his thinking on the front shocks, it is exactly backwards from what we do on a fast car. On a fast car we set the shocks to very tight on the extension(rebound). This actually helps keep the chassis loaded as the front end rises and reduces wheel stands so the car does not drag the bumper on the launch.
The old "90/10" shock thinking of full loose on the front extension is only good for slow cars like 12 second deals or maybe a no prep situation.
I help people all the time at the track who try to use the old school slow car settings on a car with real power. Some don't believe it until they try it. Then they can't thank you enough.
The old "90/10" shock thinking of full loose on the front extension is only good for slow cars like 12 second deals or maybe a no prep situation.
I help people all the time at the track who try to use the old school slow car settings on a car with real power. Some don't believe it until they try it. Then they can't thank you enough.
05-14-2017, 01:32 PM
#100
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I wonder sometimes how we get so off track. This is a street car that he wants to feel controlled, which is an opinion, and different for anyone. Sorry but track BS wins and oil foaming are not even close to the subject at hand. Though there is valuable information contained here, it's fairly useless for the discussion at hand.