can you guys post up your 408 results/setups here?
Originally Posted by marine02ss
How the hell can I know my DCR on my 408ci with the TXGIANT cam?Im pushing 464hp and 454TQ with AFR 205s thru an M6,what gives?
The DCR is only 8.5:1 if your SCR is 12.1:1. That's assuming a 114+4. If it's straight up 114, it's a lot lower than that at 8.2:1 and will need to be advanced, but that's still not horrid. If you're at 11.4:1 and have it installed straight up at 114+0 then your DCR is 7.7:1... advanced 4 degrees its still low at 8.0:1. The fact that it needs to be advanced 4 degrees should tell you that it's too big to begin with. But running it on a 110 or 108 LSA straight up is going to be a beast to tune with LOTS of overlap. However, that will extend the power past peak and will give good power down low and in the midrange.
What's your SCR? And does the cam have any advance in it? I think the cam is great, personally, but it needs to be matched to the setup to make big numbers.
Originally Posted by JakeFusion™
TX Giant is too big for a 408 on a 113 or 114 unless you are running 12.1:1 SCR or more.
The DCR is only 8.5:1 if your SCR is 12.1:1. That's assuming a 114+4. If it's straight up 114, it's a lot lower than that at 8.2:1 and will need to be advanced, but that's still not horrid. If you're at 11.4:1 and have it installed straight up at 114+0 then your DCR is 7.7:1... advanced 4 degrees its still low at 8.0:1. The fact that it needs to be advanced 4 degrees should tell you that it's too big to begin with. But running it on a 110 or 108 LSA straight up is going to be a beast to tune with LOTS of overlap. However, that will extend the power past peak and will give good power down low and in the midrange.
What's your SCR? And does the cam have any advance in it? I think the cam is great, personally, but it needs to be matched to the setup to make big numbers.
The DCR is only 8.5:1 if your SCR is 12.1:1. That's assuming a 114+4. If it's straight up 114, it's a lot lower than that at 8.2:1 and will need to be advanced, but that's still not horrid. If you're at 11.4:1 and have it installed straight up at 114+0 then your DCR is 7.7:1... advanced 4 degrees its still low at 8.0:1. The fact that it needs to be advanced 4 degrees should tell you that it's too big to begin with. But running it on a 110 or 108 LSA straight up is going to be a beast to tune with LOTS of overlap. However, that will extend the power past peak and will give good power down low and in the midrange.
What's your SCR? And does the cam have any advance in it? I think the cam is great, personally, but it needs to be matched to the setup to make big numbers.
That's weird that you say that. I talked with TSP as well as Brad from FFHP before giving the final word on what to put in my car. I decided on a 408 with a -8cc valve relief piston, 64 cc PRC stage 3 heads and the TSP Giant cam. It's set up to about 11.25:1 compression. Zack at TSP told me that they don't like to run any higher in the south east heat like in Texas or FL. Brad @ FFHP said he had the EXACT set-up in a Vette pull 525 through the stock ls6 intake and throttle body. I called TSP and they had a simular story where someone pulled 516 with a 78mm fast intake and tb. I've got the 90/90 that has been port matched to the heads. I'm personally hoping for 525 at the wheels. If I get something like 450-475, I'm loading my .45 with a few hollow points and going to have a few talks.
It won't be hard to pull 520rwhp. But your torque will be way down there. 460rwtq or so. If the combo is set up properly, your torque should be around 500-510rwtq easily. That also means your power would be north of 550rwhp.
1.25 x cid = optimum torque at peak... which is 510.
Just remember what I said about compression. You're leaving at least 25rwhp on the table if not more. If I were warranting the engine, I wouldn't want you to run it close to the edge either.
Oh, and I would not advise anyone to run a 408 without an upgraded radiator. No matter what anyone tells you, this is where the problems of running high DCR come from in the heat. Or low DCR in the heat. The 408 is making so much more power than stock that it needs an upgraded radiator if you are going to drive it around in traffic.
1.25 x cid = optimum torque at peak... which is 510.
Just remember what I said about compression. You're leaving at least 25rwhp on the table if not more. If I were warranting the engine, I wouldn't want you to run it close to the edge either.
Oh, and I would not advise anyone to run a 408 without an upgraded radiator. No matter what anyone tells you, this is where the problems of running high DCR come from in the heat. Or low DCR in the heat. The 408 is making so much more power than stock that it needs an upgraded radiator if you are going to drive it around in traffic.
Last edited by JakeFusion; May 16, 2006 at 07:58 AM.
I think I'll be fine in that department. I've got a 160* stat as well as a meziere electric water pump running 50/50 with water wetter and I've been looking into a Griffin radiator...I guess I should get one ehh?
Well heres the setup LME put in it,wiseco -8cc pistons,.013 .015 out of the hole.I installed unmilled AFR205s,GM .054 head gaskets.If I calculated correctly I should be at 11.15cr.The cam has no advance to it,I installed it staight up.I was thinking the cam I had in mind 238/244 110lsa .639/.642 would it either help or hurt me.Whats the magic cam for a 408ci?I know the heads are good for at least 500whp,just need to get it right.
I like that cam for power under the curve, but you can go a little bigger. 240/244 on a 110 straight up would work really well.
Comp XE-R 240/244 .609"/.612" 110+0. 8.2:1 DCR with 11.1:1 SCR. XE-R are still some of the best lobes out there, especially in the 240 duration range.
Comp XE-R 240/244 .609"/.612" 110+0. 8.2:1 DCR with 11.1:1 SCR. XE-R are still some of the best lobes out there, especially in the 240 duration range.
Comp LSK lobbed ones as far as I know. Cammotion might have a few bigger around the 266 duration mark and Comp might have a few in the back room somewhere hovering near 270, but the only one that I'm sure of is this:
Lobe#, Dur. @ .006", .050", .200", & Lift w/1.7 rocker
2136 313 263 186 .663"
263/263 .663"/.663" 106+0 or so would be nice in a 447 or similar.
Lobe#, Dur. @ .006", .050", .200", & Lift w/1.7 rocker
2136 313 263 186 .663"
263/263 .663"/.663" 106+0 or so would be nice in a 447 or similar.
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Say what you want. I`m running 11.3:1 on my set-up in sig. We degree`d the cam dot to dot. I`m very happy with my results, and the Trq down low is awsome. Granted my intake set-up can`t keep up now so its hurting me on top power. But numbers in sig! I had over 500TRQ even when the converter was locked. This is with cam in sig. Auto 4 with 12-bolt and all set-up for spray. We ran mine low also for gas and detonation issues with heat.
244 XE-R is still better for producing torque than the big lazy lobes a lot of people are running with less compression. Btw, something like the TX Giant with 4 degrees of advance is the same as your cam on a 113 straight up in nearly every way, except your valve stays open longer to make more power and closes at nearly the same point. The DCR will be a little less, but it's still fine enough due to the stall on the automatic to help out.
So, your setup should not be in the debate on compression. Your setup is in far better shape than most people who are down on power. Which is why you aren't down on power. Not to be an ***, but saying 11.3:1 CR for you makes power is not going to help someone making a lot less with about the same compression. There are other factors as to why they aren't making power. And that's what I'm trying to help them with.
So, your setup should not be in the debate on compression. Your setup is in far better shape than most people who are down on power. Which is why you aren't down on power. Not to be an ***, but saying 11.3:1 CR for you makes power is not going to help someone making a lot less with about the same compression. There are other factors as to why they aren't making power. And that's what I'm trying to help them with.
Last edited by JakeFusion; May 16, 2006 at 08:43 PM.
408 = 495rwhp and 470 rwtq.
eagle crank and h beam rods
diamond -2cc pistons
GMPP cnc ls6 heads 64cc
cometic .051" gasket
Fast 90mm w/ NW 90 tb
cam motion 244/249 641/644 112lsa
85mm maf
38.5 inj.
walbro intank pump
meizier elec. pump
1/34 stepped to 17/8 dyna tech headers into 3.5 stainless works exhaust
M6 w/ moser 12 bolt and 4.10's
eagle crank and h beam rods
diamond -2cc pistons
GMPP cnc ls6 heads 64cc
cometic .051" gasket
Fast 90mm w/ NW 90 tb
cam motion 244/249 641/644 112lsa
85mm maf
38.5 inj.
walbro intank pump
meizier elec. pump
1/34 stepped to 17/8 dyna tech headers into 3.5 stainless works exhaust
M6 w/ moser 12 bolt and 4.10's
Last edited by Badls6SS; May 26, 2006 at 09:44 AM.
Originally Posted by cantdrv65
Dave Lock that MF up on the dyno! That will take the verter out of the equation and let you know what the motor is REALLY making, then you can go from there with cam selection.....you might be quite suprised how much power you are losing through that converter.
FFHP 408ci Results:
Includes:
Eagle 4340 4" Crankshaft
Eagle 6.1275" H-Beam Rods
Diamond 4.030" Bore Pistons
Comp Cams Replacement Lifters
TSP PRC 3 LS6 Heads w/Hand Port
TSP PRC Dual Springs Rated To .650 Lift
TSP Giant Cam ..248 .254 .622 .613 114 lsa
Custom Base Tune From Brian @ PCM4Less (Sucked but got me to Atlanta for G10)
Comp Cams Double Roller Timing Chain
MLS Head Gaskets
Every Nut and Bolt is ARP
90/90 (Intake Manifold Hand Ported By Me.)
1 7/8 Kooks Ceramic Coated Stainless Longtubes
This is all N/a and with compression under 11.25:1 on a 93* day with 65% humidity, full belts and full exhaust.
A/F was in the 10's under 3000 rpm's and 11's until 4750 rpm's. It never got above a 12.6...until 6600 rpm's...I think it's safe to say there is a nice bit hiding in a tune.
532 RWHP 485 RWTQ
I'm sure torque is down because of the larger headers but I wanted to get them and suffer the loss n/a for my gains on the hose. This motor will be recieving a 250 progressive direct port. Compression was also lower than optimal because of the heat that we get down here in the SE part of the country. It still put down decent numbers and now I'm not so worried about detonation with spray later down the road.
Includes:
Eagle 4340 4" Crankshaft
Eagle 6.1275" H-Beam Rods
Diamond 4.030" Bore Pistons
Comp Cams Replacement Lifters
TSP PRC 3 LS6 Heads w/Hand Port
TSP PRC Dual Springs Rated To .650 Lift
TSP Giant Cam ..248 .254 .622 .613 114 lsa
Custom Base Tune From Brian @ PCM4Less (Sucked but got me to Atlanta for G10)
Comp Cams Double Roller Timing Chain
MLS Head Gaskets
Every Nut and Bolt is ARP
90/90 (Intake Manifold Hand Ported By Me.)
1 7/8 Kooks Ceramic Coated Stainless Longtubes
This is all N/a and with compression under 11.25:1 on a 93* day with 65% humidity, full belts and full exhaust.
A/F was in the 10's under 3000 rpm's and 11's until 4750 rpm's. It never got above a 12.6...until 6600 rpm's...I think it's safe to say there is a nice bit hiding in a tune.
532 RWHP 485 RWTQ
I'm sure torque is down because of the larger headers but I wanted to get them and suffer the loss n/a for my gains on the hose. This motor will be recieving a 250 progressive direct port. Compression was also lower than optimal because of the heat that we get down here in the SE part of the country. It still put down decent numbers and now I'm not so worried about detonation with spray later down the road.
Originally Posted by 02BlackBullet
FFHP 408ci Results:
Includes:
Eagle 4340 4" Crankshaft
Eagle 6.1275" H-Beam Rods
Diamond 4.030" Bore Pistons
Comp Cams Replacement Lifters
TSP PRC 3 LS6 Heads w/Hand Port
TSP PRC Dual Springs Rated To .650 Lift
TSP Giant Cam ..248 .254 .622 .613 114 lsa
Custom Base Tune From Brian @ PCM4Less (Sucked but got me to Atlanta for G10)
Comp Cams Double Roller Timing Chain
MLS Head Gaskets
Every Nut and Bolt is ARP
90/90 (Intake Manifold Hand Ported By Me.)
1 7/8 Kooks Ceramic Coated Stainless Longtubes
This is all N/a and with compression under 11.25:1 on a 93* day with 65% humidity, full belts and full exhaust.
A/F was in the 10's under 3000 rpm's and 11's until 4750 rpm's. It never got above a 12.6...until 6600 rpm's...I think it's safe to say there is a nice bit hiding in a tune.
532 RWHP 485 RWTQ
I'm sure torque is down because of the larger headers but I wanted to get them and suffer the loss n/a for my gains on the hose. This motor will be recieving a 250 progressive direct port. Compression was also lower than optimal because of the heat that we get down here in the SE part of the country. It still put down decent numbers and now I'm not so worried about detonation with spray later down the road.
Includes:
Eagle 4340 4" Crankshaft
Eagle 6.1275" H-Beam Rods
Diamond 4.030" Bore Pistons
Comp Cams Replacement Lifters
TSP PRC 3 LS6 Heads w/Hand Port
TSP PRC Dual Springs Rated To .650 Lift
TSP Giant Cam ..248 .254 .622 .613 114 lsa
Custom Base Tune From Brian @ PCM4Less (Sucked but got me to Atlanta for G10)
Comp Cams Double Roller Timing Chain
MLS Head Gaskets
Every Nut and Bolt is ARP
90/90 (Intake Manifold Hand Ported By Me.)
1 7/8 Kooks Ceramic Coated Stainless Longtubes
This is all N/a and with compression under 11.25:1 on a 93* day with 65% humidity, full belts and full exhaust.
A/F was in the 10's under 3000 rpm's and 11's until 4750 rpm's. It never got above a 12.6...until 6600 rpm's...I think it's safe to say there is a nice bit hiding in a tune.
532 RWHP 485 RWTQ
I'm sure torque is down because of the larger headers but I wanted to get them and suffer the loss n/a for my gains on the hose. This motor will be recieving a 250 progressive direct port. Compression was also lower than optimal because of the heat that we get down here in the SE part of the country. It still put down decent numbers and now I'm not so worried about detonation with spray later down the road.
12 Second Club
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From: Chitown-Jax NC-Jax FL-Honolulu-OKC, OK-NOW New Orleans Area
Originally Posted by 02BlackBullet
FFHP 408ci Results:
Includes:
Eagle 4340 4" Crankshaft
Eagle 6.1275" H-Beam Rods
Diamond 4.030" Bore Pistons
Comp Cams Replacement Lifters
TSP PRC 3 LS6 Heads w/Hand Port
TSP PRC Dual Springs Rated To .650 Lift
TSP Giant Cam ..248 .254 .622 .613 114 lsa
Custom Base Tune From Brian @ PCM4Less (Sucked but got me to Atlanta for G10)
Comp Cams Double Roller Timing Chain
MLS Head Gaskets
Every Nut and Bolt is ARP
90/90 (Intake Manifold Hand Ported By Me.)
1 7/8 Kooks Ceramic Coated Stainless Longtubes
This is all N/a and with compression under 11.25:1 on a 93* day with 65% humidity, full belts and full exhaust.
A/F was in the 10's under 3000 rpm's and 11's until 4750 rpm's. It never got above a 12.6...until 6600 rpm's...I think it's safe to say there is a nice bit hiding in a tune.
532 RWHP 485 RWTQ
I'm sure torque is down because of the larger headers but I wanted to get them and suffer the loss n/a for my gains on the hose. This motor will be recieving a 250 progressive direct port. Compression was also lower than optimal because of the heat that we get down here in the SE part of the country. It still put down decent numbers and now I'm not so worried about detonation with spray later down the road.
Includes:
Eagle 4340 4" Crankshaft
Eagle 6.1275" H-Beam Rods
Diamond 4.030" Bore Pistons
Comp Cams Replacement Lifters
TSP PRC 3 LS6 Heads w/Hand Port
TSP PRC Dual Springs Rated To .650 Lift
TSP Giant Cam ..248 .254 .622 .613 114 lsa
Custom Base Tune From Brian @ PCM4Less (Sucked but got me to Atlanta for G10)
Comp Cams Double Roller Timing Chain
MLS Head Gaskets
Every Nut and Bolt is ARP
90/90 (Intake Manifold Hand Ported By Me.)
1 7/8 Kooks Ceramic Coated Stainless Longtubes
This is all N/a and with compression under 11.25:1 on a 93* day with 65% humidity, full belts and full exhaust.
A/F was in the 10's under 3000 rpm's and 11's until 4750 rpm's. It never got above a 12.6...until 6600 rpm's...I think it's safe to say there is a nice bit hiding in a tune.
532 RWHP 485 RWTQ
I'm sure torque is down because of the larger headers but I wanted to get them and suffer the loss n/a for my gains on the hose. This motor will be recieving a 250 progressive direct port. Compression was also lower than optimal because of the heat that we get down here in the SE part of the country. It still put down decent numbers and now I'm not so worried about detonation with spray later down the road.
very nice my FFHP 408 is in process of going in the ride.. Hey u an A4 or M6?
I`m still looking to upgrade on my intake set-up. She is really choking my heads. These ET heads flow so well. This is still a work in progrees. I deffinantly see me getting over 500 easy when the intake is swapped. But untill then I`m just going to suffer with what I got!!!
Im getting my new small bore 225's milled today .018" today so I can be right at 62cc,so I can hit a target SCR of 11.5 to 1.I'll figure the head gasket when I measure the piston out of the hole.I talked to Tony he said to aim for .033'' quench that what Im gonna do.I also plan to swap the TX Giant to a more friendly 244/248 on a 110 or 111,Im just trying to break that 500rwhp mark than Ill be happy