wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

Where to get it? No cheap Chinese ****!

Thanks

stevieturbo

GM, from GM.

AMP-D

GM brand

smitty2919

GM is prob Chinese anyways LOL.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

bushing>bearing

AMP-D

I haven't seen any from China, yet.

AMP-D

No comparison between a OE GM bearing and any bushing on the market.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

They both wear....and when a bearing fails it takes out the input shaft with it. When a bushing fails I don't have to replace my input shaft. Seen it on multiple trans. I'll stick to bushings.

AMP-D

You will never get the milage from a bushing that you will with a good OE GM bearing, especially in applications making a lot of torque.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

750whp and over 600ftlbs isn't enough?

02redchevy

I am going to be using a bushing in my big block chevy. 600 horse and torque.. I think the bushing will last just fine.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Halfway there, keep trying! lol

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

lmao it's enough to be considered "alot of torque for a bushing to handle".

stevieturbo

I really dont see how the bush handles any torque. When torque is applied, the clutch is engaged....the bush does almost nothing, as does the bearing.

AMP-D

As torque is applied to the unit, the input shaft will have a tendency to move at the tip due to the helix cut on the gear side screwing against the cluster gear. The whole point on a pilot bearing is to support and keep the input shaft aligned in relationship to the cluster gear and the synchronizer assembly that will engage it.

A high quality bearing will provide a much longer life span in high torque/drivetrain load demand situations that any bushing. It is precisely why all of the manufactures went away from them and use bearings now days. Its the same reason a lot of high end race transmissions go to a rollerized extension housing versus a bi-metal babbitt bushing to support the driveshaft.

AMP-D

Depends on the rest of the factors contributing to load on the drivetrain. I will guarantee you the bushing won't last anywhere near what a GM bearing will in the same conditions.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

they both wear and fail eventually. The entire point is I'd rather not have to replace an input shaft when they fail.

AMP-D

Service life on a top quality bushing is 40K miles, tops and more like 15-20K miles if you running the hell out of it. The cheap bushings that come in these clutch kits won't even last that long. There is a reason bushings are no longer used in new cars with actual warranties.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

is this from actual experience or online? We've done WAY more than 15 to 20k miles on NA, nitrous, and boosted setups including daily drivers. Sorry you've had problems.

ElQueFør

This man speaks the truth. But then again, I've never known him to lead anyone astray


Ya know what they say.... A picture is worth a thousand words........................








Below are the needle bearings from the last pilot bearing I ran. As you can see, most of the pilot bearing ground up into nothing.



Below is a picture of all that was left of that pilot bearing stacked up in a neat and artsy-fartsy fashion on a magnet. Almost resembles some cool modern sculpture don't you think?




I will never run a pilot bearing again. That pilot bearing destroyed an otherwise perfectly good T56 input shaft which can be seen on the bench in the 2nd pic. I thought somewhere I had a picture of how it chewed up the pilot tip of the input shaft but I can't find it at the moment? That pilot bearing that destroyed one of my T56 input shafts was one that I sourced from the dealer..... I installed it correctly and did not just pound it in like some ham fisted farm boy.... And, I held that bearing in my hand and spent a few minutes working some quality Molybdenum grease into the needle rollers and the cage part of the bearing before installing it. The damn thing was pretty dry when I got it from GM, not a lick of detectable lube on it? Anyways, point being I did everything the "right" "proper" way when sourcing and installing that bearing... That bearing had MAYBE 10k miles on it at MOST..... I've only got the one LS powered hot rod with a manual currently, but my other manual rides also run bushings.I'm not the only one who has a distaste for pilot bearings...


I have NO idea why they switched to pilot bearings. With all due respect to AMP-D, I just don't agree that a pilot bearing is in ANY way superior to a bushing.... My friend stevie from across tha pond and AMP-D both know I like simplicity

I have some theories as to why the OEMs switched from bushings to bearings... First I want to throw this out there. Frequently, we look to the OEM for a "starting point" or an idea of what works or how to go about it or whatever.... HOWEVER, They don't always get it right!! I'm going to use myself and one of my rides as an example. Mainly because, if you can't make fun of yourself, what are ya doin ya know??? Lots of ya'll know that I stuffed a LQ4 S475 T56 combo into a GMT400. The "OBS" trucks as they're called sometimes... I LOVE these GMT400 trucks and IMO they are hands down some of the best trucks ever made, even in factory form with the laughable 190HP 350 TBI... But much as I like these trucks, and as many strong points as they do have.... They also exhibit some REALLY BAD fuckups from GM..... The doors are pathetic. They are that awful cartridge style door and the hinge design on the doors isn't even good enough to be classified as pathetic LOL! Anyways... I think maybe the OEMs started playing with pilot bearings thinking that if they could switch from a bushing to a bearing, it would reduce parasitic power loss a little bit and help them with their fuel economy, power, emissions etc. Also, I think that going from a boring, plain-jane bushing to a bearing could have been a selling point because it is "more high tech" "fancier" "better"...... Yeah, sorry, I don't buy it. A bushing is a boring hunk of metal. But they work.


Bushings are simple, and I like simpli.... Damnit I sound like a broken record sorry guys



OP, if you or anyone for that matter chooses to run a bushing instead of a bearing..... MAKE SURE a magnet will NOT stick to it!!! There are a lot of cheap bushings floating around with some iron content in them and you want one that is bronze... PB656HD I believe is the part number.