Improper Valve Seal Install Can Cause Catastrophic Failure PICS INSIDE!!
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Improper Valve Seal Install Can Cause Catastrophic Failure PICS INSIDE!! Guys I think this is very important & needs to be in it's own thread.
When installing anyone's spring kit you need to make sure you install the proper seat/seal combo that is designed for your spring kit. We recently had a customer install double springs on a stock seat / seal assembly & this can cause a huge problem.
Basically the stock seat/seal assembly has a od of .890" where the spring located. The inner double springs that most companies on ls1tech offer uses a ID of .676". As a result if you install the double spring over the stock seat you'll cause the inner spring to be elevated approx. .180"
The inner spring is designed for a install height of approx. 1.800. This inner spring will coil bind at 1.100. If you space the inner spring .180" on top of the 1.800" install height you will be left with less than .520" of lift before coil bind!!
Figures:
1.800" install height
-.180" step on stock seat
= 1.620" available install room
1.620-1.100" coil bind leaves you only .520" lift from coil bind, or approx. .470" lift safely.
From these figures it's easy to see even a stock camshaft could cause coil bind when double springs are installed with the stock seat!
When installing anyone's spring kit you need to make sure you install the proper seat/seal combo that is designed for your spring kit. We recently had a customer install double springs on a stock seat / seal assembly & this can cause a huge problem.
Basically the stock seat/seal assembly has a od of .890" where the spring located. The inner double springs that most companies on ls1tech offer uses a ID of .676". As a result if you install the double spring over the stock seat you'll cause the inner spring to be elevated approx. .180"
The inner spring is designed for a install height of approx. 1.800. This inner spring will coil bind at 1.100. If you space the inner spring .180" on top of the 1.800" install height you will be left with less than .520" of lift before coil bind!!
Figures:
1.800" install height
-.180" step on stock seat
= 1.620" available install room
1.620-1.100" coil bind leaves you only .520" lift from coil bind, or approx. .470" lift safely.
From these figures it's easy to see even a stock camshaft could cause coil bind when double springs are installed with the stock seat!
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Thread Starter
LS1Tech Premium Sponsor
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From: Texas!
Pic of PRC seat & stock seat with inner spring sitting on it:
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
I just can't figure out why somebody would want to reuse the stock seat. Its not like it's that hard to pull the seat off if your taking the springs off and on anyway. Even the valve seals are really easy to change. Why would somebody do that?
Thread Starter
LS1Tech Premium Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,229
Likes: 4
From: Texas!
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
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Brad, I just tried it on several PC's and it's showing them. Anyone else got X's??
Here are the links anyway:
http://www.precisionracecomponents.com/rocker5.jpg
http://www.precisionracecomponents.com/rocker6.jpg
http://www.precisionracecomponents.com/rocker7.jpg
http://www.precisionracecomponents.com/rocker4.jpg
Here are the links anyway:
http://www.precisionracecomponents.com/rocker5.jpg
http://www.precisionracecomponents.com/rocker6.jpg
http://www.precisionracecomponents.com/rocker7.jpg
http://www.precisionracecomponents.com/rocker4.jpg
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Verdad Gallardo I saw the pics in the original thread that were posted by the OP.
Lesson learned I guess although i cant believe he just didnt replace the seals and seats in the first place, pretty dumb move.
Lesson learned I guess although i cant believe he just didnt replace the seals and seats in the first place, pretty dumb move.
I can see all the pictures and I then clicked on the other thread. I'm guessing there are plenty of people in that thread that are eating crow. That breakage is deffinitely a valvetrain geometry issue and if the inner spring went into coil bind, that would be enough to break an aluminum head over time especially with a high lift cam.
I chalk this up to another reason not to run a dual spring. I'd rather talk to PAC and get a higher pressure beehive to control harmonics and flutter.
I chalk this up to another reason not to run a dual spring. I'd rather talk to PAC and get a higher pressure beehive to control harmonics and flutter.
I seen the other thread and I figured right away this is what happened. You have to replace the seats/seals for the dual's. No reason not to, other then time and a million reasons to do it.
This was 100% installer error, it's not like seals/seats are hard or expensive to replace. Any spring is gonna cause huge problems if it binds, or is setup improperly, triple, dual, beehive, whatever.
Quick question, I just installed PRC dual springs with all the new hardware. When you put the new oil seals on and tap them in all the way, is the spring that goes around the top suppose to scrunch up a bit? I noticed this was happening when I was installing the new seals on the new seats. Thanks.
Not everyone in all cases re-use them. Sometimes the heads show up brand new with brand new seats/seals already on them. W/O knowing this thinking you can just use that seal and seat a major failure can happen. Thank you for making this thread, hopefully it will save some people down the road. In fact this should be a sticky.
Thread Starter
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From: Texas!
I've never seen any double spring kits installed on a stock valve seal. I think if you do a little bit of measuring you'll find out there just isn't enough room between the stock seat assembly & the cylinder head material.
This is probably the second time I've ever heard of someone trying this in probably 5000+ spring kits all the vendors on ls1tech have sold.
I hardly think it's worthy of a sticky, but what do I know I got bashed by you guys for 3 pages over this...
This is probably the second time I've ever heard of someone trying this in probably 5000+ spring kits all the vendors on ls1tech have sold.
I hardly think it's worthy of a sticky, but what do I know I got bashed by you guys for 3 pages over this...
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
