What BBC rotating assy?
What BBC rotating assy? I'm ready to start putting my BB back together, but dont know where to head with it in regards to rotating assy. There are so many different strokes to go with out there, but I'm not very savvy on knowing which strokes are for what applications. The goal is to build the motor for boost in a classic muscle car (hopefully a 64-65 Chevelle) with a 4-speed.
The block was previously set up .030, stock crank and rods with forged pistons. Heads I currently have are Brodix BB2 Plus, Intake is a port matched Victor Jr; I'd like to keep this combo on the top end. Any input on this is appreciated.
Thanks
The block was previously set up .030, stock crank and rods with forged pistons. Heads I currently have are Brodix BB2 Plus, Intake is a port matched Victor Jr; I'd like to keep this combo on the top end. Any input on this is appreciated.
Thanks
6 & 8 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,284
Likes: 0
From: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
.
Stock block is not going to live long with big boosted HP. Plus unless it's a full race chassis,
you will never use all the power anyway. I was actually considering going from the stock 4" stroke to a 3.75
to help with traction by killing some torque. With such a vague, no information post, it's hard to help.
Are your goals 500 HP or 2000 HP??
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Sorry for such little info. Nothing as sick as 2000hp, like to have about 500 hp on motor. Not looking to throw a ton of boost on it, Ill definitely be keeping it under 1000hp; I dont see any reason for me going over 6-700 hp really. I am just wanting to build a classic car that is fun to drive on the street and the track every now and then; not looking to have a full competition car. I do need it fast enough to take on the late model 5-600 hp cars running around though. I didnt think I would have a probably running a stock 4 bolt block with a little boost.
Check with Ohio crank on their rotating assy's. Good price and great customer service. I would steer towards a 489. 4.25 stroke, .030 over. Go with the .250 longer rods. They sell this in a kit that match you heads. You can usually have it to your door in a week.
mrdragster1970 is right on all points. big hp on stock block equals a bad time.
eagle does a few nice kits though:
1st kit $1849.99 850hp-1500hp capable
460c.i. depending on your bore
4.000 stroke
6.385 rod
srp flat top pistons
112cc 118cc 124cc
comp. 9.0 8.5 8.3
2nd kit $1949.99 850-1500hp capable
489c.i. depending on bore size
4.250 stroke
6.385 rod
srp flat top pistons
112cc 118cc 124cc
comp. 9.5 9.1 8.7
3rd kit is forced induction kit $2349.99 1500hp capable
460c.i. depending on bore size
4.000 stroke
6.385 rod
je dished pistons
112cc 118cc 124cc
comp 7.9 7.7 7.4
if intersted in anymore info give me a call
GRAND PRIX AUTO SPORTS CENTER
4915 ADMIRAL PL
TULSA, OK 74115
1(800)331-2223
ask for chris
eagle does a few nice kits though:
1st kit $1849.99 850hp-1500hp capable
460c.i. depending on your bore
4.000 stroke
6.385 rod
srp flat top pistons
112cc 118cc 124cc
comp. 9.0 8.5 8.3
2nd kit $1949.99 850-1500hp capable
489c.i. depending on bore size
4.250 stroke
6.385 rod
srp flat top pistons
112cc 118cc 124cc
comp. 9.5 9.1 8.7
3rd kit is forced induction kit $2349.99 1500hp capable
460c.i. depending on bore size
4.000 stroke
6.385 rod
je dished pistons
112cc 118cc 124cc
comp 7.9 7.7 7.4
if intersted in anymore info give me a call
GRAND PRIX AUTO SPORTS CENTER
4915 ADMIRAL PL
TULSA, OK 74115
1(800)331-2223
ask for chris
Well, Ive seen a lot of different kits and all approx. in the same price ranges. My problem is what setup do I go with for my application? 460, 468, 489, 496, 502? How do I know which one will cator to my application? Do I really need to consider an aftermarket block for a forged setup with 10-15 lbs of boost?
Sorry for such novice questions, just trying to learn a little.
Sorry for such novice questions, just trying to learn a little.
6 & 8 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,284
Likes: 0
From: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
.
You really need to know how much chassis you will have.
You can't throw 600 HP at some 40 year old stock suspension. As I said, stroke will make it harder to handle.
Torque really likes to find the weakest link. With it being a street car, I hate to say it,
but you might look at a turbo 427" combination. You will make 400+ HP easy on engine
& you can control how far you go from there.
You really need to think as a total project. You can't get some big fancy engine & then can't find a car to hold it.
Trust me, I have been around a little. I ran in the 9's @ 140 mph with a stock '70 Camaro.
It was not easy, and I wasted a lot of fuel & tires trying to get it to work. Good luck.
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Thanks for your input mrdragster1970. I do know that I cant run this motor on a stock suspension of any type thanks to a personal experience of my own: I was given this engine at 17 yrs old and I had the bright idea of putting it in a stock 83 z28 body with a 400 tranny. When i gave the car away it had a cracked subframe, windsheild, and t-top along with a busted rear and torque arm...and that was with the engine just bored with a good valvetrain and heads.
I guess I came across a little misunderstood. I am looking for a classic car because that is what I like; I do plan to put together a car that wil be able to use this power. This is why I think anything much more than 600 hp would be a waste. I currently have my 2000 SS which is a 400+ hp high 11 sec car, and as much as I love this car, its not what I am really wanting. I would get a lot more pleasure out of driving a classic car with some BB torque to move it...my big focus is the car not major power; but, I do want to build a motor with potential.
I need a rotating assy regardless, I gave my stock one to my father for his motor. So my question here was what rotating assembly should I consider for what I am going for? I have to buy one anyway, so why not stroke it right? My power adder of choice is boost if I decide to add a little hp.
I guess I came across a little misunderstood. I am looking for a classic car because that is what I like; I do plan to put together a car that wil be able to use this power. This is why I think anything much more than 600 hp would be a waste. I currently have my 2000 SS which is a 400+ hp high 11 sec car, and as much as I love this car, its not what I am really wanting. I would get a lot more pleasure out of driving a classic car with some BB torque to move it...my big focus is the car not major power; but, I do want to build a motor with potential.
I need a rotating assy regardless, I gave my stock one to my father for his motor. So my question here was what rotating assembly should I consider for what I am going for? I have to buy one anyway, so why not stroke it right? My power adder of choice is boost if I decide to add a little hp.
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Verdad Gallardo I personally think that boost makes up for lack of c.i.'s in a lot of cases. if you turbo a stout 468 with the proper components, i.e. cam profile, heads, intake, carb or inj., it will make it a monster. it sounds like you have a good set of heads and intake. your cam choice will play a major roll. with the right turbo, i wouldnt say that 700+ is out of the question.
i love turbo cars, i've owned two and there is nothing like hearing the turbo spool up then all of a sudden you are gone!
i love turbo cars, i've owned two and there is nothing like hearing the turbo spool up then all of a sudden you are gone!
Depending on the block, you can put a 4.25 stroke crank in most of them. My wife has a mid 70's 454 block that we put a 4.25 stroke in without any grinding. .030 came out to 489. Runs high 10's in a 71 Camaro. We have ladderbars on the back. She ran low 11's with the leaf springs. I have a 468 Pontiac in my 68 Bird, had homemade Caltracs for about 10 years. Ran mid 10's until the right rear left decided it didn't want to work anymore. Then we put ladder bars on it. Both cars have stock front suspension. We could run pump gas in both engines, but opt for 1/2 110 and regular. Just an insurance policy.
6 & 8 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,284
Likes: 0
From: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
.
At least that makes some sense. So give us a clue what car you are leaning towards.
That way we know if it's leafs, factory 4 link, torque arm ect. Big difference between a 4000 lb tank & a vega.
I still like a short stroke with boost. Easier to control traction.
Plus with boost you can use cheap fuel when needed or better yet get the benefits of Ethanol.
Wish you were closer, as you can probably tell, I'm a BBC guy.
My crew chief & I have built many many combinations over the years.
We have a couple of ideas that work pretty decent.
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If you are going with a boosted application then stick with the stock cubes because you will make up for power with PSI. If you have some time to search around you can go with a stock crank, forged +.250 rods and pistons with the block you have. If you just want to build it and be done grab something from Eagle. Their BBC stuff can handle some good power.
If I can make a ten sec 1/4 mi pass on the motor as cambirdracing mentioned he does, I will be satisfied for now. I just want to build with some space for boost because that is what I prefer and I know how after a while your car starts feeling slow to you...unless you are making 6 & 8 sec passes like mrdragster1970...lol.
I definitely am not looking to just slap something together and be done with it. I want to learn while putting this together and put together a great working combo with no wasted power. Im sure I can just order a built shortblock for a good price and slap my heads on, but Id like to put a little more thought into it.
I guess I am looking from completely different perpective. My plan was to set my goal at about 600 hp with plenty of potential in the motor for more hp, pick the car, then build the suspension to make use of the power I plan on putting down. I never really thought of picking the suspension then build the motor to it. But, I was thinking to probably go with an aftermarket 4 link in the rear (a whole other learning curve for me). And the car will probably be a tank, I like the 64-67 Chevelles a lot; it will be a full interiored car. Hopefully that is what I find once I sell my Camaro.
I definitely am not looking to just slap something together and be done with it. I want to learn while putting this together and put together a great working combo with no wasted power. Im sure I can just order a built shortblock for a good price and slap my heads on, but Id like to put a little more thought into it.
I guess I am looking from completely different perpective. My plan was to set my goal at about 600 hp with plenty of potential in the motor for more hp, pick the car, then build the suspension to make use of the power I plan on putting down. I never really thought of picking the suspension then build the motor to it. But, I was thinking to probably go with an aftermarket 4 link in the rear (a whole other learning curve for me). And the car will probably be a tank, I like the 64-67 Chevelles a lot; it will be a full interiored car. Hopefully that is what I find once I sell my Camaro.
Well, the thing is, a BBC will make tons of power and as stated, tons of torque. 700 HP can be had on pump gas out of a 454 block with a 4.25 crank stroked to 489/496 or more. The right cam, head sand compression make it happen. Hell, you can even do it on the stock big oval ports.
So, if you just WANT a boosted engine, you need to just go with the stock stroke, even as mentioned, a 427 crank in the 454 block.
I am doing a 496 with oval ports and hyd roller in my 89 RS, it will have a shot of dope on it, about 150 for the street "IF" i ever use it will be in question till i go to the track. I will be using a 6 speed trans too, with a clutch and 4.30 gears it is going to be a toy. Hard to make that hook on the street really, but it will be a blast.
It is hard to set up a engine without knowing what it will be in, a heavier car can get by with the extra torque VS a lighter car(like my 89 RS) will be so much harder to hook without big tires and better than leaf spring suspension.
Not to mention, do you want to build a retro roller, solid roller, a flat tappet even?
So, if you just WANT a boosted engine, you need to just go with the stock stroke, even as mentioned, a 427 crank in the 454 block.
I am doing a 496 with oval ports and hyd roller in my 89 RS, it will have a shot of dope on it, about 150 for the street "IF" i ever use it will be in question till i go to the track. I will be using a 6 speed trans too, with a clutch and 4.30 gears it is going to be a toy. Hard to make that hook on the street really, but it will be a blast.
It is hard to set up a engine without knowing what it will be in, a heavier car can get by with the extra torque VS a lighter car(like my 89 RS) will be so much harder to hook without big tires and better than leaf spring suspension.
Not to mention, do you want to build a retro roller, solid roller, a flat tappet even?
I guess I was expecting more like 500-600 hp at the flywheel on a mildly stroked BB. This is why I was wanting to build for boost on top. Maybe I should just shoot for a biut higher compression all motor setup...
I really love the Camaro, but trying to go with something different; I would say Im about 75% sure Ill be picking up a Chevelle, therefore that is what I will build for. If I do pick up a classic Camaro or something else light, then I can build the 400 Ive been wanting to put together.
I plan on going with a solid roller setup. What I want, is a little flexibility to be able to add some power later on if I wanted without having to rebuild the motor. A cam swap for the boost would be fine, but dont want to have to tear apart the motor for it. I am willing to sacrifice a few all motor hp for such a setup.
Good luck with your BB in your 89. You may already know, but Ill just mention a few things for you. The headers (I used Hooker Super Comps) are going to heat up your brake lines pretty bad, you will need to reroute them. If you decide to install aftermarket heads, the headers will give you more problems than you can imagine...lots of modifications to make them work. Tall valve covers will not work with the stock brake booster. And lastly, consider an oil filter relocation kit if you use these headers. But then again I was 17 and I thought I could just drop it in and all would be smoth as glass...
I really love the Camaro, but trying to go with something different; I would say Im about 75% sure Ill be picking up a Chevelle, therefore that is what I will build for. If I do pick up a classic Camaro or something else light, then I can build the 400 Ive been wanting to put together.
I plan on going with a solid roller setup. What I want, is a little flexibility to be able to add some power later on if I wanted without having to rebuild the motor. A cam swap for the boost would be fine, but dont want to have to tear apart the motor for it. I am willing to sacrifice a few all motor hp for such a setup.
Good luck with your BB in your 89. You may already know, but Ill just mention a few things for you. The headers (I used Hooker Super Comps) are going to heat up your brake lines pretty bad, you will need to reroute them. If you decide to install aftermarket heads, the headers will give you more problems than you can imagine...lots of modifications to make them work. Tall valve covers will not work with the stock brake booster. And lastly, consider an oil filter relocation kit if you use these headers. But then again I was 17 and I thought I could just drop it in and all would be smoth as glass...
LOL, trust me, us third gen guys have figgured out lots fo things with the BBC swap, we found "other" headers that work. I am not spending 500$ on the swap headers as yes, they are a pain in the ***.
As for you, the problem is, the lower compression will hold back power if you want boost later, it will still make power, but you will know,"Man, if i had more compression i would be making a lot more power..."
But some of us can wait. I am going for lots on motor and some gas when i need it, if i was you i would go ahead and build it for boost and boost it once it is in the car. But a big block with boost is going to make earth spinning torque that will be best in a chevelle or heavier car that can stock a bit better.
As for you, the problem is, the lower compression will hold back power if you want boost later, it will still make power, but you will know,"Man, if i had more compression i would be making a lot more power..."
But some of us can wait. I am going for lots on motor and some gas when i need it, if i was you i would go ahead and build it for boost and boost it once it is in the car. But a big block with boost is going to make earth spinning torque that will be best in a chevelle or heavier car that can stock a bit better.
LOL, trust me, us third gen guys have figgured out lots fo things with the BBC swap, we found "other" headers that work. I am not spending 500$ on the swap headers as yes, they are a pain in the ***.
As for you, the problem is, the lower compression will hold back power if you want boost later, it will still make power, but you will know,"Man, if i had more compression i would be making a lot more power..."
But some of us can wait. I am going for lots on motor and some gas when i need it, if i was you i would go ahead and build it for boost and boost it once it is in the car. But a big block with boost is going to make earth spinning torque that will be best in a chevelle or heavier car that can stock a bit better.
As for you, the problem is, the lower compression will hold back power if you want boost later, it will still make power, but you will know,"Man, if i had more compression i would be making a lot more power..."
But some of us can wait. I am going for lots on motor and some gas when i need it, if i was you i would go ahead and build it for boost and boost it once it is in the car. But a big block with boost is going to make earth spinning torque that will be best in a chevelle or heavier car that can stock a bit better.
what size tubing? 2"?
