UPDATE: I have removed the results from ED from this thread because I feel that ED is a company that does not deserve our money. They change their products around and do not update specifications and refuse to give out the real specifications. All they will claim is that their products are suited to any application (sealed, ported, IB, etc.) when asked. Their eDead product especially sucks, see here. Then there's those piece of crap flat subwoofers they ordered as a custom build from TC Sounds, many of which they did not pay for, leaving TC Sounds with a bunch of drivers that would simply shatter without even pushing them. Here is one thread with info about them, but there are many more on various forums.


http://kawaii-shoujo.net/AntiAliased...son_sealed.png
http://kawaii-shoujo.net/AntiAliased...sealed_spl.png

If any subwoofer wanted more than .75cuft, I gave it .75cuft. We probably have more like .5 feet to work with in a subthump box after driver volume is accounted for, so most of these will require some polyfill AKA dacron which is cheap at walmart. Stuff it in there pretty good.

Here are the F3, F6 points:

F3:
Alpine Type-R: 46.03
CDT HD-1020: 48.11
Dayton RSS265HF-4: 43.51
DIYMA 12: 51.51
Fi SSD10-D2: 50.29
Fi SSD12-D2: 45.64
Fi Q10-D2: 51.94
Fi Q12-D2: 45.58
IDQ10D4v2: 53.24
JL 10w3v3: 47.69
TC-1000 10: 67.27
TC-1000 12: 50.43
XXLS: 62.14

F6:
Alpine Type-R: 35.54
CDT: 38.18
Dayton RSS265HF-4: 34.41
DIYMA 12: 39.77
Fi SSD10-D2: 38.13
Fi SSD12-D2: 37.07
Fi Q10-D2: 39.38
Fi Q12-D2: 36.35
IDQ10D4v2: 53.24
JL 10w3v3: 37.59
TC-1000 10: 50.92
TC-1000 12: 39.32
XXLS: 47.14


Efficiency summary for drivers not on graph:
CDT hits about 85dB peak around 90Hz and 81dB around 50Hz, which puts it in the upper average
Fi SSD10-D2 sucks, only beating TC-1000 10"
Fi SSD12-D2 is consistantly under a decibel less than TC-1000 12"
Fi Q10-D2 is about the same as the SSD10
Fi Q12-D2 is about the same as the SSD12, but very slightly lower in the upper octave

Volume for drivers not on graph (again, clipped at .75cuft):
CDT: .655cuft
Fi SSD10-D2: .457cuft
Fi SSD12-D2: .75cuft
Fi Q10-D2: .347cuft
Fi Q12-D2: .75cuft


If you want a low F3/F6 (deep bass), stick to... the stuff with a low F3/F6 above. Particularly the Dayton or Fi 12"s. The Alpine does decently, but it can't beat the Dayton and has a lower overall SPL. It ties the Fi 12"s, which have a higher sensitivity. JL does decent but not amazing. TC-1000 10" and XXLS aren't the best for low F3 points - avoid. The DIYMA, JL and TC-1000 12" start gaining ground at the F6 point, but still can't catch the F3 leaders.

If you want high efficiency, the TC Sounds 12" or either Fi 12" is for you... If you've got a box for a 12" or want to enlarge the hole on your subthump box, which I recommend. The IDQ isn't far behind. Dayton and JL are in the middle, and disregard the others for efficiency.

If you want good (but not amazing) extension and efficiency, the Fi Q12 or the TC Sounds 12" are for you. Following closely is the Fi SSD12 and following that, JL. The DIYMA and IDQ aren't quite as balanced, but are still decent in the extension category.

I'd avoid the TC-1000 10" as it gives the worst extension of the group.

I know I could have included 12"s from the other brands, but really, the graph is pretty crowded already and I don't expect many of you to go for a 12" stealth enclosure until (yes, I said until) they become available for a reasonable price. When that time comes, I'll do a 12" only comparison.

And as always, there are lots of highly regarded brands that I just can't fit in. Adire Audio, Ascendant Audio, RE Audio, Soundsplinter... So many more good brands. So don't think this thread is the only resource available. Don't compare specs of other subwoofers to this thread, though. If you want to know about another driver, download WinISD, find the Thiele-Small parameters for the driver (should have a datasheet), and make a project in a sealed box. Make sure the volume in the box tab isn't like 3 cubic feet, because no amount of polyfill will give you that in a stealth box.

 

post deleted after recent findings

 

I worded that badly. They ordered a bunch, got some, later refused to pay, leaving TCSounds with a bunch. I'm not sure if they did pay for those subs that did get delivered or not. My guess (which is just that) is that they ordered a lot over some amount of time, got the first shipment or two, found out that they suck, and then tried to get out of it when TCSounds had more waiting for them.

I'm trying to find the original source I read that from. There are too many forums with threads about ED. Not sure why I'm not finding it with Google. I'll get back to you.

Ah. "TC Sounds" not TCSounds. Here's some interesting related stuff:

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showth...=205038&page=2 (see #28 in particular)
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=38048
http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/arch...p/t-66970.html
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ead.php?t=9192

Still haven't found the original post I was looking for.

Also, including ED's BS in my comparison WOULD hurt, because the specs are NOT TRUE.

 

Fi SSD10, SSD12, Q10, Q12 added (but not to the graphs) - more to come later. This is my first time modelling a Fi driver, and I'm really liking how this Q12 looks. I might just have to get one instead of the DIYMA I was shooting for.

Is anyone else interested in 12"s? I can add more if so.

 

IMO, WinISD is a great little program to use and I have used it quite a bit myself in the past......BUT, one must not solely base his choice of subs on a modeling program. It doesn't account for things like cabin gain (which in our cars is quite a bit). So a sub that models up as rolling off soon and has a higher F3 could actually sound better in our cars compared to one that doesn't roll off as soon and with a lower F3....which when adding cabin gain will actually be overemphasizing that particular frequency.

I say this because years ago when I was looking for a sub to replace my 10" Type R with and I was using that program and that program only to base my decision on. Well, the sub I wanted (Audiomobile MASS) was not available and the company soon went out of business. I then just bought a Image Dynamics IDQ 10" to serve as my temp. sub. until I could find one I wanted. I decided on the CDT Audio HD-1020 and I am very happy with it. I like it better than my old Type R as well as my old IDQ. I never modeled the CDT though before I bought it because CDT didn't give out that info back then. It was only until I received the sub that I got the specs, which are the following:



If you would like to model this one up, go ahead, as I am curious as to how it models up to the Type R and the IDQ...both of which I didn't like compared to my CDT Audio sub. My CDT sub is actually a DVC 4ohm sub that I have wired in parallel for a 2ohm load. It's installed in a 0.60 ft³ sealed fiberglass "stealth" box and is getting ~900watts. I don't have WinISD installed anymore so I can't do it myself.

thanks,
Paul

 

Yeah if you put those subs in our cars, you will have completely different results.
My favorite part is where it is said that the Alpine won't beat the Dayton in over all SPL... I've seen guys break 150db with a single 10" Type R. That sub lasted for years, too. Dayton won't be doing that.

Out of all of those subs, the Fi Q and TC-1000 would be my pick for best all around sub to use on a daily basis. I do like an SQL based system though.

 

I agree, the Q and TC-1000 are great options. But I think they're much better in 12" than 10". I've been trying to get people here to go 12", but it's tough when subthump doesn't offer a 12" box. It's very much worth enlarging the hole, though!

I added the data for that CDT, I didn't mention it in my conclusion though. Feeling a bit lazy at the moment...

And you're also right that WinISD isn't the end-all-be-all of speaker design, but I do believe that it is certainly a large help in comparing drivers. Cabin gain will be roughly the same no matter what you put in the enclosure, after all.

 

haha, you said "enlarging the hole"...

 

 

I actually had a custom 12" box, but HATED the way the driver looked in it, IMO, the area we have to play with just isn't large enough to put a 12" sub w/o it looking like crap. I don't like my driver sitting on top of the mounting surface and sticking way out. I like a recessed lip that it can sit down into giving it a cleaner look. With a 12" sub in that little area you can't do it that way so I customized my custom 12" box to use a 10" sub with a recessed lip to mount the sub into. Plus, with a lot of 12" drivers side stealth boxes, you have to trim the interior panel in order to get it to fit better seeing the sub sticks out, which I was not willing to do.

 

I'm a little confused by this-

We're dealing with the same size box, an f-body stealthbox, correct? So if anything, the 12" would have less airspace to work with because of their larger displacement in the box.

If you model the 10" drivers with the full amount of space available in a stealthbox (Subthump, Kee Audio, etc), I think you may find that their response will be smoother and just as deep as a 12" driver in the same small airspace.

In my personal example, my choice was between a Fi Q 10" or Fi Q 12". The 10" wants .2-.6 ft, while the 12 wants .8-1.5 ft.
Since the Subthump stealthbox is listed as a .6 ft. box, once you subtract the driver's own displacement, (.12 for the 10" and .16 for the 12"), you end up with:

.48 ft for a 10"
.44 ft for a 12"

Let's be generous with the dacron and say we're getting the maximum 30% increase in effective air space.. now we're up to-

.624 ft for the 10"
.572 ft for the 12"

You're still pretty far under the .8 for the 12" driver, but you are sitting right in the sweet range (.5-.6) for the 10" to work properly.

So you're saying "What's your dang point, Rich?"

I think if you modeled the drivers in the airspace I listed above (.624-10" / .572-12") the results will be quite different. If nothing else, I'd really like to see the change...

 

The Kee box has a decent amount more than subthump. Subthumps use of MDF is a horrible, horrible idea. Not a big difference modelling it between .5 and .8cuft. .5cuft gives kind of a high Q of .956 but it's not even a 1dB hump. F3 is only different by about 4Hz. It's still better than the Q10 for sure.

 

post deleted for many reasons