Steering Rack Q's
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 313
Likes: 5
From: Eastern PA
Steering Rack Q's Need some advice on pinpointing my front steering noises. When I make a turn (doesn't matter which direction), I get all sorts of various noises coming from the passenger side. Got under the car today and found nothing broken or abnormal looking.
There's no play when I push up/down & in/out on the wheel so I assume the ball joints are good. However, there is a bit of play when I shake left/right (I figure if my skinny 130lb *** can shake it pretty good, then the weight of the car must really move it when turning). Had my dad get under while I shook and looks like its either coming from the rack itself or inner tie rods. Compared the play to another car and the difference is apparent. Outer tie rod end has no play. Both ends of the rack move together when I shake either wheel.
My question is: How can I determine what exactly is causing the play? Can I replace the inner tie rods or is getting a new rack the best option?
There's no play when I push up/down & in/out on the wheel so I assume the ball joints are good. However, there is a bit of play when I shake left/right (I figure if my skinny 130lb *** can shake it pretty good, then the weight of the car must really move it when turning). Had my dad get under while I shook and looks like its either coming from the rack itself or inner tie rods. Compared the play to another car and the difference is apparent. Outer tie rod end has no play. Both ends of the rack move together when I shake either wheel.
My question is: How can I determine what exactly is causing the play? Can I replace the inner tie rods or is getting a new rack the best option?
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
From: Anheuser Busch, Houston Texas
You can replace the inner rods. I think they are something like $60 a piece though. I would see if the rack input is tight and free of play. I am not sure what an acceptable amount of play is for the rack input, but mine is more than a few degrees, and it translates to a little slop in the steering wheel. Get someone to turn the wheel when the car is off but the column is unlocked while you are looking at the rack input. First make sure that pinch joint is nice and snug, but then observe the amount of movement before the inners start moving at the boot. There will be an amount of time the rack gear is turning slightly but the inners and wheels are not moving.
Unless someone else has a better way to diagnose, I would say that is the slop in the gear, unrelated to the inners, which means you could replace everything but your gear would still need a rebuild, and that would suck, since you would have spent half the cost of a rack and time to do the inners (and an alignment eventually) and still have slop.
I have thought about this a lot but not found a lot of info on gears themselves - hell there are two different angled input racks for LS1 cars and people hardly know that. This just isn't something that gets a lot of consideration.
Unless someone else has a better way to diagnose, I would say that is the slop in the gear, unrelated to the inners, which means you could replace everything but your gear would still need a rebuild, and that would suck, since you would have spent half the cost of a rack and time to do the inners (and an alignment eventually) and still have slop.
I have thought about this a lot but not found a lot of info on gears themselves - hell there are two different angled input racks for LS1 cars and people hardly know that. This just isn't something that gets a lot of consideration.
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
From: Anheuser Busch, Houston Texas
No problem. If you think about it, when you get your new rack you might compare the same joint on the old rack and the new rack and see if there is a difference, while they are both off the car. Just take the coupler and tighten it down on the new one same as the old one, and give it a little twist either direction. You should be able to tell the difference between a 6+ year old one and a new one, if there is going to be a difference. I believe there will be.
Racks aren't cheap, even with a core, and if we could successfully figure out when a gear was worn out independently from inner tie rods, I bet a lot of people in your current position would save some money, and be able to just do inners, or conversely not waste money on them if it was really a worn gear.
Racks aren't cheap, even with a core, and if we could successfully figure out when a gear was worn out independently from inner tie rods, I bet a lot of people in your current position would save some money, and be able to just do inners, or conversely not waste money on them if it was really a worn gear.
No problem. If you think about it, when you get your new rack you might compare the same joint on the old rack and the new rack and see if there is a difference, while they are both off the car. Just take the coupler and tighten it down on the new one same as the old one, and give it a little twist either direction. You should be able to tell the difference between a 6+ year old one and a new one, if there is going to be a difference. I believe there will be.
Racks aren't cheap, even with a core, and if we could successfully figure out when a gear was worn out independently from inner tie rods, I bet a lot of people in your current position would save some money, and be able to just do inners, or conversely not waste money on them if it was really a worn gear.
Racks aren't cheap, even with a core, and if we could successfully figure out when a gear was worn out independently from inner tie rods, I bet a lot of people in your current position would save some money, and be able to just do inners, or conversely not waste money on them if it was really a worn gear.
I replaced the inner and outters and it seemed to fix it for awhile.
I did new control arm bushings all the way around and the car feels better but still some play... Actually what was weird is that my lower ball joints were tight but the uppers felt kind of loose. Not sure why on that one.
I may end up needed a new rack. I am just not sure at this point as one would think it wouldn't wear out on a 81K mile car. But stuff happens!
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
From: Anheuser Busch, Houston Texas
Yeah, that's really the mystery. You can replace just about everything, and still the rack may give you that "not so fresh feeling." I know everything wear mates, if you replace one component and not the other, but you would think if you did the ball joints, bushings and tie rods, that would pretty much only leave you with a steering gear. Obviously this is with a solid double u joint type coupler, because those LT1/v6 rag joints are garbage. Still, assuming a good coupler, where does that leave you?
If you did all that, I have to believe it is your steering gear. That's why my homemade test tries to eliminate the ball joints and even inners. If you can see that nub on the rack turn before the inners turn, that is going to mean when you turn the steering wheel, the first little bit is not going to turn the car. That's what we want gone.
If you did all that, I have to believe it is your steering gear. That's why my homemade test tries to eliminate the ball joints and even inners. If you can see that nub on the rack turn before the inners turn, that is going to mean when you turn the steering wheel, the first little bit is not going to turn the car. That's what we want gone.
Yeah, that's really the mystery. You can replace just about everything, and still the rack may give you that "not so fresh feeling." I know everything wear mates, if you replace one component and not the other, but you would think if you did the ball joints, bushings and tie rods, that would pretty much only leave you with a steering gear. Obviously this is with a solid double u joint type coupler, because those LT1/v6 rag joints are garbage. Still, assuming a good coupler, where does that leave you?
If you did all that, I have to believe it is your steering gear. That's why my homemade test tries to eliminate the ball joints and even inners. If you can see that nub on the rack turn before the inners turn, that is going to mean when you turn the steering wheel, the first little bit is not going to turn the car. That's what we want gone.
If you did all that, I have to believe it is your steering gear. That's why my homemade test tries to eliminate the ball joints and even inners. If you can see that nub on the rack turn before the inners turn, that is going to mean when you turn the steering wheel, the first little bit is not going to turn the car. That's what we want gone.
I did not know you could order the adapter from the rack to the steering column. How much does that cost?
I also thought about going to a manual rack since this is a thrill car... {which would solve the problem since it would be a new unit}
