Lightweight springs?
Lightweight springs? Aside from running Strano's springs, what else out there is lighter than stock?
I was wanting to run the Hotchkis 1" lowering springs, nothing too crazy, and nothing high on the spring rates. Is there anything like that made of a lighter material? It all adds up.
I was wanting to run the Hotchkis 1" lowering springs, nothing too crazy, and nothing high on the spring rates. Is there anything like that made of a lighter material? It all adds up.
2.5" coilover spring setups are generally going to be lighter than stock-style springs, even with the aluminum adjusters added.
8" 2.5" springs are several pounds lighter than 10" springs, but you would need to run a spring rate of 600 or more to use an 8" long spring. I've run 550x2.5x8 on my heavy car, but that's probably marginal unless the car has been stripped for racing.
I'm not familiar with any other lightweight lowering springs worth having. However, if Sam's spring vendor makes 2.5" springs from the same alloy, that would probably be even lighter. If so, I'm sure Sam could fix you up.
I really wouldn't call Sam's new spring set crazy low or stiff, though. If I didn't already have coilovers and was in the market, that's probably what I would get.
8" 2.5" springs are several pounds lighter than 10" springs, but you would need to run a spring rate of 600 or more to use an 8" long spring. I've run 550x2.5x8 on my heavy car, but that's probably marginal unless the car has been stripped for racing.
I'm not familiar with any other lightweight lowering springs worth having. However, if Sam's spring vendor makes 2.5" springs from the same alloy, that would probably be even lighter. If so, I'm sure Sam could fix you up.
I really wouldn't call Sam's new spring set crazy low or stiff, though. If I didn't already have coilovers and was in the market, that's probably what I would get.
Only Voghtland uses the VVS alloy. They make my springs, and they make their own springs. Their own springs use very stiff rears. 180-230-ish in rate.
Mine are a bit stiffer in the front vs. the normal springs, and significantly less stiff in the rear (but still 25% or so more than stock, and 150 is the average rate of a 1LE rear spring).
2.5" coils won't save you hardly anything. A normal 2.5" race spring used for coil-overs is 5 pounds (just weighed a 500). I also weighed one of the front springs from our set, it was 6. And remember you need coil-over hardware, the sleeves, the upper adapter perch, etc. to install them and those things while not heavy, do add back weight.
Mine are a bit stiffer in the front vs. the normal springs, and significantly less stiff in the rear (but still 25% or so more than stock, and 150 is the average rate of a 1LE rear spring).
2.5" coils won't save you hardly anything. A normal 2.5" race spring used for coil-overs is 5 pounds (just weighed a 500). I also weighed one of the front springs from our set, it was 6. And remember you need coil-over hardware, the sleeves, the upper adapter perch, etc. to install them and those things while not heavy, do add back weight.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 34
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From: SoCal
What brand of 2.5" spring did you weigh Sam? They differ by brand quite a bit.
In addition, you can also save weight by removing the stock steel lower spring seat and the replacement aluminum colar and seat will most certaily be lighter.
In addition, if your class allows you to go to a weld in upper mount, you can got to a lighter race shock and also ditch that heavy top rubber hat. That swap alone saves almost 10lbs / side.
Jason S.
In addition, you can also save weight by removing the stock steel lower spring seat and the replacement aluminum colar and seat will most certaily be lighter.
In addition, if your class allows you to go to a weld in upper mount, you can got to a lighter race shock and also ditch that heavy top rubber hat. That swap alone saves almost 10lbs / side.
Jason S.
Eibach 10" 500 lb. You can play the game forever.... the stock upper hat has weight, but you always have to replace it with some other method of mounting which is geneally all metal. 
Yes, aluminum bodied shocks do weight less.... they also cost 3 times as much too where-as the lighter springs really don't cost more when you consider the shipping is included on mine.
and no... I don't run aluminum bodied shocks on my cars in case anyone is wondering.
Yes, aluminum bodied shocks do weight less.... they also cost 3 times as much too where-as the lighter springs really don't cost more when you consider the shipping is included on mine.
and no... I don't run aluminum bodied shocks on my cars in case anyone is wondering.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
Sam, how much does an equivalent Vogtland VVS 2.5" I.D. 10" free length 700 race spring weigh compared to a Hypercoil. I've also noticed that vogtland touts that they use less coils for more spring travel within the range, which probably also helps with weight reduction (just a guess at this point).
If they do indeed considerably weigh less than their Hypercoil counterpart, then you'll be receiving a call from me to order.
If they do indeed considerably weigh less than their Hypercoil counterpart, then you'll be receiving a call from me to order.
I don't know..... Never weighed them. I assume less, but not a lot less. My springs are on the order of 30% lighter than other sets of springs of similar rate and drop. Given that 30%, a 2.5" VVS spring would be around 1-1.5 pounds less than a Hypercoil.
So, what do you consider considerable?
So, what do you consider considerable?
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
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Well, a better term might be significant, which I might say is or isn't, so now it comes down to price, which I will discuss over the phone with you so onlookers won't "net shop hop."
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Speaking of weight why we are on the subject. I never had the chance to do a comparo on the front springs. But the Rear strano springs weighed 11.8, while the ebaich were 12.4. JFYI
John
John
AFA what I've read about the custom Strano springs,
good all around lowering height+favourable springs rates+slightly less weight than probably the rest of the competitors+reasonable price+good customer support=a very good product, IMHO.
AFA chasing the minute amounts of unsprung weight beyond something like Sam's springs and swaybars, it's a whole lot of money for minute improvements. As my sig reflects, I use aluminium motorsport shocks, however I have observed much more improvements for the PDX and/or RR and nothing for mild AX or the streets.
Those who are using heavy aftermarket wheels are suffering a first in a series of self-imposed performance penalties that many will make due to the fact that many of them are actually heavier compared to the OE wheels and sometimes when the wheel is a larger diameter than necessary (usually anything above 17") then an additional physical handicap of added rotational mass will be present as well.
good all around lowering height+favourable springs rates+slightly less weight than probably the rest of the competitors+reasonable price+good customer support=a very good product, IMHO.
AFA chasing the minute amounts of unsprung weight beyond something like Sam's springs and swaybars, it's a whole lot of money for minute improvements. As my sig reflects, I use aluminium motorsport shocks, however I have observed much more improvements for the PDX and/or RR and nothing for mild AX or the streets.
Those who are using heavy aftermarket wheels are suffering a first in a series of self-imposed performance penalties that many will make due to the fact that many of them are actually heavier compared to the OE wheels and sometimes when the wheel is a larger diameter than necessary (usually anything above 17") then an additional physical handicap of added rotational mass will be present as well.
The plan was to stay close to stock spring rates for this mostly street car. I think I can make a good handling car with shocks and sway bars without going high on the rates. I always figure when going aftermarket, if you try to consider weight of each item it all adds up and you end up with a better setup. May as well while you are replacing stock parts at the same time.
I just want a lowering spring in the range of Sam's springs, but without the rate. Looks like I can't have it all though.
I just want a lowering spring in the range of Sam's springs, but without the rate. Looks like I can't have it all though.
If you're not really going to drag race at the track, then I couldn't possibly see why you could have a large concern (maybe a past serious injury?).
Me personally, I have run rates like what Sam's springs are, combined with his sway bars and appropriately adjusted Koni DA's, and have had passengers of different types ride with me, and comment that the ride feels relatively smooth and comfortable compared to other's (mostly other f-bodies with worn out decarbons).
In the end, to each his/her own. You could wait for something else to come along, but as we all know it very well could be a long wait, and you still might have nothing to choose from.
Now for a question, how many combinations of different springs with appropraitely valved shocks have you tried on your own vehicle, or others like it?
Me personally, I have run rates like what Sam's springs are, combined with his sway bars and appropriately adjusted Koni DA's, and have had passengers of different types ride with me, and comment that the ride feels relatively smooth and comfortable compared to other's (mostly other f-bodies with worn out decarbons).
In the end, to each his/her own. You could wait for something else to come along, but as we all know it very well could be a long wait, and you still might have nothing to choose from.
Now for a question, how many combinations of different springs with appropraitely valved shocks have you tried on your own vehicle, or others like it?
Have not tried anything yet, this is a stock suspension car. I want to do it right the 1st time.
Basically my reason for not wanting more rate is, I want to be able to hook still when I need to. The car will see drag racing but is mostly a street car. However I need to be able to launch, and high rates would hurt the weight transfer. That's why I was thinking I could make a decent handling car with shocks (Koni's) and swaybars instead. That would give a nice riding vehicle on the street, that could handle corners much better than stock, and still keep the ability to launch.
Basically my reason for not wanting more rate is, I want to be able to hook still when I need to. The car will see drag racing but is mostly a street car. However I need to be able to launch, and high rates would hurt the weight transfer. That's why I was thinking I could make a decent handling car with shocks (Koni's) and swaybars instead. That would give a nice riding vehicle on the street, that could handle corners much better than stock, and still keep the ability to launch.
Gotcha,
I think the first thing to do in this scenario (or for most scenarios IMHO) is to install one thing at a time, and perform the same things you do with the vehicle (hopefully legally). From that point, then you can really get a good idea of what problems you find, regardless of past, present, and/or future (the future is what I refer to those parts that tout as being an upgrade for any/all situations, but then either fall short of those promises, thus becoming a downgrade to peroformance, which even good items can do in certain situations).
AFA doing it right the first time, you may discover that even with the advice of champions and pros, it might be what you desire in the short run, but not what you desire in the long run.
I think the first thing to do in this scenario (or for most scenarios IMHO) is to install one thing at a time, and perform the same things you do with the vehicle (hopefully legally). From that point, then you can really get a good idea of what problems you find, regardless of past, present, and/or future (the future is what I refer to those parts that tout as being an upgrade for any/all situations, but then either fall short of those promises, thus becoming a downgrade to peroformance, which even good items can do in certain situations).
AFA doing it right the first time, you may discover that even with the advice of champions and pros, it might be what you desire in the short run, but not what you desire in the long run.
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Hypercoils are lighter than the Eibach's but I don't remember by how much. I'll see what I have floating arround to weigh.
You're right about the upper mount, I replace the stock 5lb hunk of rubber and steel with a 5 oz steel shock mount ;-) Even the the cheaper race shocks with steel bodies are significantly lighter than the stock style shocks.
Jason S.
You're right about the upper mount, I replace the stock 5lb hunk of rubber and steel with a 5 oz steel shock mount ;-) Even the the cheaper race shocks with steel bodies are significantly lighter than the stock style shocks.
Jason S.
Again, I don't disagree that aluminum shocks are lighter. I personally don't buy that 5 oz is all an upper mount for race shocks weighs though, the 4 bolts alone I'm sure weight more than 5 oz.
Hypercoils are lighter by a tiny little bit, which would make the difference Foxxtron would see even smaller. And I don't have a Hypercoil laying around to weigh, sorry.
Hypercoils are lighter by a tiny little bit, which would make the difference Foxxtron would see even smaller. And I don't have a Hypercoil laying around to weigh, sorry.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
I was noting that STEEL body race shocks are significantly lighter than stock style STEEL shocks.
I'll get an accurate weight for both the stock upper mount and the race upper with bolts. I think the Hypercoils that I have are all stiffer than 500lbs but I'll see what I have.
Jason S.
I'll get an accurate weight for both the stock upper mount and the race upper with bolts. I think the Hypercoils that I have are all stiffer than 500lbs but I'll see what I have.
Jason S.
Oh, not to hijack this thread but rather as a note (interesting thread as it is), I do indeed have Hypercoils. I am considering either Hypercoils or Vogtland VVS springs of an increased rate since it's about that time for me to increase the front spring rates.
It would be ideal to get a 1-1.25" drop, with little change in the stock spring rates but also save some weight, for the reasons stated above. Haven't been able to find one, and I don't expect to. It seems you would have to have a custom set made.