C5 conversion or Baer
Yes, yes, yes and yes. All I am trying to say is that, IMO, it's not worth the extra money to me in my application. I am a very tame driver but after I go Heads/Cam I will upgrade to a Willwood/Stoptech/Brembo 4-piston kit. Or maybe even SSBC's 4-piston calipers. Besides, how come Corvettes do a 121.888 in a 60-0 ft brake test while the LS1 F-body's do a 121 even? Aren't Corvette lighter? Isn't their center of gravity much lower than an F-Body? We can argue all we want. We could say, "this cam will make much more power than that cam." But in the end it's the quarter-mile that defines how well your application has worked. Theoretically, "this cam should be more powerful" but if applied and you gain nothing is it worth it?
The 60-0ft brake test is my "quarter-mile". Had I seen that the Corvette was victorious, I too, would switch.
The 60-0ft brake test is my "quarter-mile". Had I seen that the Corvette was victorious, I too, would switch.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK
Originally Posted by Blakbird24
Not true. A 30" rotor, caliper for caliper, would slow you down alot more than a 12.8" rotor thanks to increased leverage. Even for the same pad area. You would experience extreme fade problems, but the initial braking force generated by the 30" rotor would be significantly more than the 12.8" rotor. Think about it just like a large 2x4 attached to a spinning wheel. If you want to stop it, it's going to be alot easier to stop that wheel by grabbing the 30" 2x4 than it would be by using a 12.8" 2x4. It's all about leverage when it comes to rotor size.
No argument there, however this is the exact reason why the C5 brakes are noticeably better than the f-body brakes. Stronger castings and larger pads create more clamping force.
No argument there, however this is the exact reason why the C5 brakes are noticeably better than the f-body brakes. Stronger castings and larger pads create more clamping force.
This guy knows what he's talking about not only the lever arm but also the larger rotor has more mass, the friction created by the pad to rotor contact is turned into heat, you are able to put more heat into a more massive rotor without damage.
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (27)
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From: Anheuser Busch, Houston Texas
Originally Posted by 02TransAm/Batmobile
Yes, yes, yes and yes. All I am trying to say is that, IMO, it's not worth the extra money to me in my application.
Originally Posted by 02TransAm/Batmobile
You really think if you ran a C5 Brake System, that you wouldn't have warped your rotors doing a hard 70 brake? Do you think that the C5 Rotors somehow resist warping? Now that I think of it, the 12.8 Rotors is the ONLY benefit to this conversion.
It isn't the best for every application, that is for certain. But let's just get the pros and cons on the table and let people decide that for themselves.
You have to decide for yourself what you are willing to pay for a given amount of improvement. That's subjective. But I would have to say that I believe that most would find that the benefits of the C5 kit are way beyond it's modest price. I don't think there's any other vehicle on earth that has access to such a swap. For less than $500, you can have new, better brakes. If you are looking for Brembo-like performance, this ain't gonna do it. But since you are saving nearly $3000, it's hard to complain.
guys none of this moment arm and leverage BS matters if you can still break the tires loose with a stock braking system. You can have a million inch diameter rotor, but once the tires break loose, the brakes are no longer transfering kinetic energy to heat energy, that's what the tires are doing.
The only reason anyone should upgrade is for repeated high speed stops(stock system fades quite easily) or for looking pretty(gotta love Willwood's black calipers).
EDIT- and the braking difference between the Camaro and the Corvette can be seen in differences in tires or even a few degrees in tempurature.
The only reason anyone should upgrade is for repeated high speed stops(stock system fades quite easily) or for looking pretty(gotta love Willwood's black calipers).
EDIT- and the braking difference between the Camaro and the Corvette can be seen in differences in tires or even a few degrees in tempurature.
So all the people that have done the C5 conversion have wasted their money? This is the first time I've heard there's no improvement going with the vette brakes. Interesting. I would like to see some tests too. I was thinking about going this conversion, but I am going to hold of at the moment.
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Originally Posted by 02TransAm/Batmobile
I would love to see some before and after testings of converting to C5 Brakes.
The tires will break lose with either setup. All you have to do is put some slicks on the one you want to win.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 38
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Every vehicle I've ever had including my 2002 Z-28 had sub-par brakes and I've always been able to overheat them just with spirited street driving. I could always smell the pads burning and I warped the rotors on the Z-28. I'm not so interested in maxing out the stopping distance in one stop but to get them to be able to withstand a few repeated stops from a decent speed without "Losing Their Cool".
The stock rotors on the 75 vette (which is a C3) are only 11.8" so I figure 13" rotors should help with the fade problem at least to some extent. I was really just wondering about the difference between the Baer and C5. Doesn't sound like there's too much difference.
The stock rotors on the 75 vette (which is a C3) are only 11.8" so I figure 13" rotors should help with the fade problem at least to some extent. I was really just wondering about the difference between the Baer and C5. Doesn't sound like there's too much difference.
Originally Posted by 3.4camaro
guys none of this moment arm and leverage BS matters if you can still break the tires loose with a stock braking system. You can have a million inch diameter rotor, but once the tires break loose, the brakes are no longer transfering kinetic energy to heat energy, that's what the tires are doing.
Yes I know our cars have ABS which stops the wheels from locking, but you won't even get a chirp out of them at that speed. Even without ABS it's not going to happen.
I've said it before and i'll say it again, if you never cross the 80mph mark, the stock f-body brakes are just fine. For the rest of us who want to see what triple digits look like and still safely get back down to a speed that the unprotected human body can better handle...like...i dunno...ZERO...we want something better. The C5 brakes are by no means the solver of all problems brake, but they are a decent improvement for a very decent price.
Originally Posted by Blakbird24
Well you have a point. However I challenge you to lock the wheels at upwards of 80mph with the stock f-body brakes. Not going to happen. You'll warp the **** out of the rotors, melt the pads and spread the calipers, but the wheels will not be stopping.
Very good point. I conceide my argument. When I was thinking this over in my mind, I was thinking smashing the brakes at 30 or something.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 63
From: Knappa, Oregon
Ok, I'm new to the brake forum but not new to LS1Tech. I want to upgrade the front brakes on my 2002 WS6 to the C5 conversion. I do mostly curvy 2 lane unimproved roads, with a couple of 'jump on it' passing lanes that get me over 100 occationally. Like once a week, (or day) cause it's fun too.
I have the 17 inch WS6 wheels specific to the 2002 year. I would upgrade to braided lines and better pads, of course. So I need: C-5 rotors and calipers? and what else? Are the other relocation brackets needed for my wheels?
I posted a similar question on another thread, sorry. But we're burning daylight here, and I'd like to get moving on this. Thank's for your input.
I have the 17 inch WS6 wheels specific to the 2002 year. I would upgrade to braided lines and better pads, of course. So I need: C-5 rotors and calipers? and what else? Are the other relocation brackets needed for my wheels?
I posted a similar question on another thread, sorry. But we're burning daylight here, and I'd like to get moving on this. Thank's for your input.
Originally Posted by ghardester
Ok, I'm new to the brake forum but not new to LS1Tech. I want to upgrade the front brakes on my 2002 WS6 to the C5 conversion. I do mostly curvy 2 lane unimproved roads, with a couple of 'jump on it' passing lanes that get me over 100 occationally. Like once a week, (or day) cause it's fun too.
I have the 17 inch WS6 wheels specific to the 2002 year. I would upgrade to braided lines and better pads, of course. So I need: C-5 rotors and calipers? and what else? Are the other relocation brackets needed for my wheels?
I posted a similar question on another thread, sorry. But we're burning daylight here, and I'd like to get moving on this. Thank's for your input.
I have the 17 inch WS6 wheels specific to the 2002 year. I would upgrade to braided lines and better pads, of course. So I need: C-5 rotors and calipers? and what else? Are the other relocation brackets needed for my wheels?
I posted a similar question on another thread, sorry. But we're burning daylight here, and I'd like to get moving on this. Thank's for your input.
regardless of the rotor size it's the pad and fluid that overheats. High temp fluid is the first upgrade. Second is better pads. After that look at a larger setup. Many road race with 12 inch brakes.
