650R installed and ready to rumble!
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
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From: Fort Collins, CO
All the engine understands is piston speed. It doesn't care if you get there from stroke or RPM. It's all the same.
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2004
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It does care if it tears up crank bearings due to deflection! The cranks in the Vipers get bad vibration due to flex at higher RPM.
The engine understands more than just Piston Speed!! You are use to thinking V8's!!!
The engine understands more than just Piston Speed!! You are use to thinking V8's!!!
I chatted with a Viper powertrain engineer over on the VCA site, he also mentioned that the V10 has oil starvation issues beyond 6K rpm. Not due to the pickup, but the oiling system to supply the crankshaft. So yes, they like to spin rod bearings above 6K rpm. Sure would be nice to hit 7K rpm, but nobody has a good reliable method to do so yet.
Those headers look very nice. Same catback as on my car, since Nick built/installed it while he was at MTI. It has a deep sound, but is very loud. Your car will be loud as f-ck with that system, mine still has high-flow cats and it is super loud.
Those headers look very nice. Same catback as on my car, since Nick built/installed it while he was at MTI. It has a deep sound, but is very loud. Your car will be loud as f-ck with that system, mine still has high-flow cats and it is super loud.
The viper having 2 extra cylinders doesnt have much to do with it. Ben and gray are correct. Tony you hit the nail on the head . Viper engines have more oiling issues than the LS1 stuff.Sorry for the thread hijack Garret. Your stuff looks great. But if you want to see "trick" you know you can stop by the shop anytime.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
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From: Fort Collins, CO
If you're spinning bearings and you don't have a huge blower mounted to it somehow it's an oiling system or engine assembly problem. With the LS1 there are modifications you can do to the oiling system to really help yourself. If you had a Viper block, a flashlight, a can of WD-40, and some brain power you could probably map the system out in your garage and maybe find a way to help yourself, but it sounds like the mains get oiled last, which obviously sucks.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,293
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From: H-Town
Description of Hennessey's headers:
100% Aircraft Quality T304 Stainless Steel Construction, 1 7/8 inch Primary Tubes, Burns 5-to-1 Stainless Steel Merge Collectors, Half Inch Thick CNC Machined Stainless Steel Flanges, Includes New Factory Exhaust Manifold Gaskets, 100% TIG Welded
Not sure if John put it on the dyno before hand or not. If not I am guessing around the 545-550 range.
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Verdad Gallardo Teching In
Joined: Dec 2004
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Sorry I listened to Brian at LME as well as others with experience on the Viper motors. I am not an expert, and don't claim to be, but I listen very well. Forgot you and Gray are gods!
G, sorry for derailing the post as well.
G, sorry for derailing the post as well.
That is hilarious. You think that a stock crank making under 1000 hp is going to flex. The viper having 2 extra cylinders doesnt have much to do with it. Ben and gray are correct. Tony you hit the nail on the head . Viper engines have more oiling issues than the LS1 stuff.
Sorry for the thread hijack Garret. Your stuff looks great. But if you want to see "trick" you know you can stop by the shop anytime.
The viper having 2 extra cylinders doesnt have much to do with it. Ben and gray are correct. Tony you hit the nail on the head . Viper engines have more oiling issues than the LS1 stuff.Sorry for the thread hijack Garret. Your stuff looks great. But if you want to see "trick" you know you can stop by the shop anytime.
Wasn't sure that AR made headers for the Gen 4?
Description of Hennessey's headers:
100% Aircraft Quality T304 Stainless Steel Construction, 1 7/8 inch Primary Tubes, Burns 5-to-1 Stainless Steel Merge Collectors, Half Inch Thick CNC Machined Stainless Steel Flanges, Includes New Factory Exhaust Manifold Gaskets, 100% TIG Welded
Not sure if John put it on the dyno before hand or not. If not I am guessing around the 545-550 range.
Description of Hennessey's headers:
100% Aircraft Quality T304 Stainless Steel Construction, 1 7/8 inch Primary Tubes, Burns 5-to-1 Stainless Steel Merge Collectors, Half Inch Thick CNC Machined Stainless Steel Flanges, Includes New Factory Exhaust Manifold Gaskets, 100% TIG Welded
Not sure if John put it on the dyno before hand or not. If not I am guessing around the 545-550 range.
8 Sec Tuner
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,641
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From: Wish I was in a boat fishing...
That would be a great choice IF the ARH headers fit a viper. We did a 06 SRT and had them ship us 3 sets of their headers. None of the passenger side headers were made correct. After being fed up with ARH's quality I had them pay KOOKS to overnight me a set of Kooks headers. Fit perfect the first time!
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 0
From: Fort Collins, CO
LME does have a lot of experience with spun bearings, but it's probably never had anything to do with overpowering a crankshaft.
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 102
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From: Houston, TX
the new gen IV does not have the same oiling issues that plagues the previous V cars. the setup does not promote oil starvation above any certain RPM and has better oiling and less cavatation charactersitics of the afore mentioned V cars. now boost on the other hand will most likely promote crank deflection and it is not measured by the amount of hosrepower produced but yet by the volume of pressure filling one such cylinder. sorry again G to go off topic but there is a lot of Viper misinformation here or V10 should i say.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,955
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From: Houston / University of Texas, Austin
well they both attended and graduated from an engine machining and buildling school, LOL.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,293
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From: H-Town
Heres an update and dyno numbers!
Video of the dyno
The power is down due to the the new PCM that has to "relearn" the system. We est. a fairly big jump when the car is "taught" what was done to it.
The new PCM also redlines @ 6500rpm you can see where it flatlines at around 5500 RPM's
We didnt get a chance to do a before and after dyno.
I just compared my numbers to the 09 ACR from DC performance
Headers 605hp 568tq
Headers/ Computer 618hp 594tq
You can see the TQ numbers are close but the HP is down.
After some miles I am going to stop by LMR and slap it on the dyno to see what the difference is in a few weeks.
Car sounds amazing! And feels like a whole new car.
I want to Thank John publicly for taking care of the car when it was down at HPE for a few days getting the 650R pacakge.
His staff kept me up to date on everything they were doing.
When I went to pick the car up it was cleaned up and looked brand new waiting for me in the shade.
Tony the gentlemen that worked on the car came out and asked me if I had any questions and let him know if I had any issues to give him a call.
Top notch service all the way around.
Thanks again John no question you will be getting more of my business in the near future.
Regards
G
Video of the dyno
The power is down due to the the new PCM that has to "relearn" the system. We est. a fairly big jump when the car is "taught" what was done to it.
The new PCM also redlines @ 6500rpm you can see where it flatlines at around 5500 RPM's
We didnt get a chance to do a before and after dyno.
I just compared my numbers to the 09 ACR from DC performance
Headers 605hp 568tq
Headers/ Computer 618hp 594tq
You can see the TQ numbers are close but the HP is down.
After some miles I am going to stop by LMR and slap it on the dyno to see what the difference is in a few weeks.
Car sounds amazing! And feels like a whole new car.
I want to Thank John publicly for taking care of the car when it was down at HPE for a few days getting the 650R pacakge.
His staff kept me up to date on everything they were doing.
When I went to pick the car up it was cleaned up and looked brand new waiting for me in the shade.
Tony the gentlemen that worked on the car came out and asked me if I had any questions and let him know if I had any issues to give him a call.
Top notch service all the way around.
Thanks again John no question you will be getting more of my business in the near future.
Regards
G
