Just thought I'd share the rest of the PM with the class...




I had already gone through other channels to get this taken care of by the time FFP had contacted me 4 days later.

 

Cool.. looks like you guys are square then... all is fair. Right on.

 

UPDATE: I just got off the phone with the B.A.R.
Keith told them a couple lies:
1. That I had performed significant modifications to the car since the clutch install.
Completely untrue. Since the clutch install, I have done:
A. Window Tint
B. New slotted/drilled brake rotors
C. Tuning

2. That I used an inferior clutch.
I didn't realize a SPEC stage 3/Fidanza flywheel setup was inferior.

3. He said that the transmission's input shaft was loose, and that his shop could not have done anything to prevent this problem.

If that is the case then:
A. Why wasn't I told that my 23k mile tranny needed a rebuild when I brought it in the first time?
B. Why didn't he explain to the B.A.R. the causes of input shafts getting chewed up (damaged pilot bearing)
Which would have led to the causes for input bearings to fail: improper installation of transmission

Now he is also unwilling to cooperate with the B.A.R. to find a resolution, so the B.A.R. explained to me that the next steps are:
1. having the tranny removed&examined by a transmission shop; have them document the findings
2. take FFP to court

 

As posted by Keith....

First off, this will be my last post in regards to this issue. I tried to resolve this thing from the beginning and got nowhere. I am now to the point that I am sick of dealing with someone this irrational. There is more to solving complaints than always giving in to someone, its called principal.
I told the person at BAR that my OPINION of the clutch supplied was that they were not so great of a clutch. Secondly they asked why the dealership would not cover this repair under warranty. I explained that the car had been modified to a point that the warranty was voided: modified heads (according to the customer), cam, cut-out, line lock, headers just to name a few). I am not for sure whether the cam was in the car when the clutch was originally installed or not but I did not remember the car running as awful the 1st time in came in (not in regards to the clutch). I do not recall the tranny having the severe issues the 1st time it came in as it did the last time. (note the possibilities of causes below) I told BAR that I originally tried to peacefully resolve the issue before they got involved but now that he has gone to the extreme that he has by slandering the shops name on various boards, manipulating the facts, & his lack of willingness to be cooperative that I no longer cared to deal with the customer. I feel that this will lead to further issues & that the only way the customer would ever be happy is if we paid for a new tranny & install even if we where found to not be at fault. Even then there is no way to say he would not continue slandering us on the board, so what is there to gain.
NOTE: Also the pilot bearing was still intact, not completely disintigrated, but the cage had started coming apart and ONE needle bearing was not in line with the others but the pilot bearing was still COMPLETE & IN PLACE. The input shaft was NOT able to wobble around in the backside of the crank, the bearing was still complete. If the pilot bearing was damaged when installing the tranny then it would not have lasted as long as it did, almost 5K miles and 6+ months. Also why would we fight putting in a tranny when it would take less time & effort to use the alignment tools we have & let the tranny slide in place smoothly. The tranny has internal issues besides the input shaft. The tranny made a bad howling noise when in gear and driving as well as the tranny sometimes was rough going into gear and popped out of 1st several times. These issues can not be caused by installing a tranny for a clutch R&R. Now if the pilot bearing was completely gone and there was NO support on the input shaft then maybe.
There is no way for anyone on this board, including myself, to know if a person has driven his car hard, beat on it, missed shifts etc. Why would one go to the extreme effort and money to do the mods that he has done to his car if he is not going to use them? There is no way to say 100% for sure which one of us is wrong or maybe it could be a combination of the two of us, at least I can admit that and offered to find a solution & was willing to take a 3rd parties diagnosis for cause of the problems (tranny shop). I think that maybe reputation speaks for itself so the likely hood that I caused the problem is pretty slim and that if I did, I would have taken care of it. Bottom line is he needs to grow up, take responsibilty for his actions, quit looking to find scape goats for his personal issues and just pay to get the car fixed.

This could have been avoided if he had taken my offer, yet he declined and felt BAR would have done more. Now that BAR's decision was not to his liking he is back to bashing FFP on the boards. This just goes to show that he would not be happy unless someone else came out of pocket for a new tranny he wasn't willing to rightfully pay for. For the amount of time this has taken for both of us he could have already been on the road with a fixed tranny and a couple free R&Rs. Its time for him to take some responsibility.

Maybe he should sell the car, buy a Geo or Kia & leave it stock so you will have a factory warranty. Just a suggestion.

 

Sure didn't seem that way when you mocked me, threatened me, cursed me and threw me out of your shop on Christmas Eve. In front of your mechanics, a customer, my sister, and wife.


I told Debbie the same thing - that my modifications would have voided the factory warranty.

Just to name a few? You named more than I have Mostly right. I don't have headers. I think your major problem is that you exxagerate the facts until they seem to back you up.

Yes, all of the engine work was done (minus tuning) before I brought the car to you.

Because it didn't have any of the issues. The reason the car ran so crappily is because you could barely get it in gear, and it "grinded" terribly when trying to shift.

You didn't contact me after I left the shop (Friday) until after I posted online (Sunday) and AFTER I already talked with the BAR (Monday). How can you possibly say that?

That is funny for a couple of reasons:
1. Your mechanic told me the pilot bearing had 'disentigrated' - his word, not mine.
2. Your mechanic told me the input shaft was "chewed" up because of this.
3. You charged me .5 hour of labor to 'remove the pieces'

How many times should I do this? I've paid you twice already.

I wasn't concerned about the factory warranty. My concern is when other people try to 'get one over' on me.

 

 

WTF is so funny ?

 

Dont worry about it.. I wasnt laughing at you.

 

Honestly soslo.
U need to stop acting like a kid. Just cause U are trying to get something for nothing, don't get mad at a shop for not following suit.

I mean honestly son......... U think just cause U go on the "Internet" and make a "Few Phone calls" ur gonna ruin his business???????



Let me answer for U...........NO. Ur not.


Keith has been doing business for a long time now. And he more then likely has run into quite a few people like u. DO u think if keith really didn't take care of his customers, would he be able to move the shop to a bigger building????


so why don't u just take his offer, and grow up. He tried to make it right, and u denied his offer. so just nut it up, swallow ur pride, and shake hands.

 

Do I know you sscamaro387? It blows me away that a lot of the NorCal guys are acting like this. When I lived in Fremont and went out to dinner w/you guys and went to GTGs, there was never a problem. Ask Chewy, Mike, Matt, F8L, Jennifer - maybe even Rick remembers me. People that know me also know that I am not some punk kid looking to cause trouble.

Then suddenly - I happen to be one of the few people who have a bad experience with FFP, and LOOK OUT - somebody is out to ruin the shop's business. Give me a break.

This is one of the dumbest things I've read online. You are quoting words for what reason? To make me look bad. Grow up man.

Look, like I told F8L - I'm sure Keith does good work for a majority of his customers, or he wouldn't be in business. I'm not arguing anything against that. What I'm saying is - it didn't happen with me. Get over it.

In case you didn't read what I had to say in my couple of main posts/replies - he didn't try to make it right OK? He kept saying things after the fact when they meant nothing. And his word means nothing to me. So why would I want to go back and trust someone who has given me no reason to?

And drop the condescending crap, the "son", and the "U" - it makes you look like the kid.

 

First, when you R&R a stock transmission; it all of a sudden should not have any "excessive end play" on the input shaft.
Second, A new clutch and flywheel combo should not have to "rebalanced". Is this some kind of "made in China Crap" or what.
Just sounds like a bad install to me and the speed shop should be liable.

 

Why are you blown away? Cause some of us are willing to defend FFP?

What you really should be blown away by is the people, like most the Ford members on CAFords, that are so bandwagon happy that theyll say anything to look "cool" and "agree" with you. Youve gotta admit most of those fools are out of line.

Youre not out to ruin FFPs business? Fooled me... how many boards did you make it a point to "cut and paste" to and I think in one case one thread in lounge and another in the CA forum.

Keith didnt try to make it ok? I find that real funny... I saw the PMs, hell you posted them.. Keith didnt care that you made a threat with BAR or went web board happy and posted what you did. Even AFTER you mentioned you already persued BAR, in your threads, and slandering FFP he still offered to resolve the problem. If you think he was offering cause you mentioned BAR or cause of your posts then you are sadly mistaken. He did it simply cause he wanted to make things right regardless of what you had done or said.... you couldnt reverse your posts on the boards.. and you couldnt retract your BAR threat.. so if he really didnt want to fix it then why the hell would he?

 

No - I'm blown away because no matter what anyone else says, you've already made up your mind. You refuse to believe that there is a possibility of FFP messing something up.


I agree - some of the guys said stupid stuff about retaliation. And if you noticed I made a post right after that crap started coming out telling people not to do anything to Keith, FFP, or the cars there



Would you rather me re-write the same thing in 4 different ways? Or would you rather me not share my experience with the 2 regional sections on national boards, and 2 local boards? All of which I read/post to.

You are wrong. Keith retracted his offer once he found out that I had already pursued the BAR. Do you want me to cut/paste that post again?


I assume he was offering because of the bad press. You need to get the timeline straight, Avengeance. It's getting silly trying to explain this to you.
Everything went down on Friday. I origianlly posted my experience when I got home on Sunday. He didn't contact me (via PM) until Tuesday. And he didn't PM me until after he posted, and then I replied again.

What part of that makes you think he wanted to make things right with me out of the goodness of his heart? He probably just wanted to get this thing over with. Me too!

Here's the kicker - I didn't want to work with him directly at this point. I didn't want my car back at his shop again. We didn't hug before I left the shop on Friday.
Get that through your head - I wanted to bring in a third party to help resolve this. Why is that such a crime? You make it sound like I am trying to drag him to a murder trial.

Well, Keith didn't want a third party. So he retracted his offers. Sounds like he really wanted to help.

We can keep posting back and forth if you want, or you can PM me, or both. Believe it or not I'd be glad to talk to you more about this.

 

I never said that.. Ive even mentioned the fact that only 99% of their customers had a good experience. I know that theres a hand full of people that havent had good experiences, including your cousin (?). In this line of business you cannot please everyone. I KNOW theres a possibility that they may have done wrong.. I just happen to doubt it and if so its been blown out of proportion a [sarc]tad[/sarc].

I know he retracted.. and Ill tell you EXACLTLY why he did. Just for the simple fact that IF you two end up in a legal battle and you happen to lose you cant come back and say "Hey.. I want to take you up on that offer."

From a business standpoint I think you can understand that. Its NOT cause he didnt want to fix this. Its actually silly to think you cant figure that out.

You obviously didnt get the point of my last post.. Im saying he did this "out of the goodness of his heart" for the simple fact that the damage you had done at that point was done... him offering to help find a solution wasnt going to reverse the fact that you were threatening with BAR or the fact that you plastered what "happened" on several boards. So yes.. Keith GENUINELY wanted to find a solution... you decided you didnt want to go that route so he retracted his offer for reasons I stated above. Its simple really. So if you cant see that he offered that help sincerely after me thouroughly walking you through it... then I dont think youll ever get it.

Nothing wrong with that at all..

Keith actually did offer a 3rd party opinion, remember the part about bringing in a outside tranny shop to diagnose the problem? Hell if you wouldve played your cards right you couldve had BAR do their thing and at the same time had your car at a tranny shop being diagnosed knowing that if they proved FFP wrong you wouldve had Keith backing up his word to help you out.

I dont mind making this public.. I really dont think there is anything else to put on the table though.. if you cant get what I said through your head then I dont know how to make it easier for you to understand.

 

pardon my ignorance, I dont live in California, but I have a real hard time believing that a reputable business person would call you a ******* loser in public like that unless you had already gone way beyond the bounds of an acceptable customer-style interaction, and into threats yourself.

I hope you guys can fix this but I gotta say I'm with FFP on this. I've heard nothing but good things about them. anyway goodluck man with whatever your car needs to have done.

 

Disclosure: I do not know the person that started this thread and had not seen his call sign before seeing this thread. I can in no way speak of his current situation. However, that being said, "IT, IN NO WAY SURPRISES ME AT ALL."

Facts:

1) FORCE FED PERFORMANCE IS IN MULTIPLE LAWSUITS AT THIS TIME UNLESS THEY HAVE RECENTLY SETTLED A FEW OF THEM. Check Lexus.

2) Bone Process Service. The only process server, in Yuba City, stopped by that location at least five times in the last year for at least four clients, to their recollection. This was according to Bone Process Service, which is run and owned by a very nice older lady. Feel free to call them.

3) FFP has had multiple customer complaints due to their negligence and lack of experience. Verified by both actual, written and verbal corespondence that I have in my possession from multiple owners.

4) They have damaged the exterior of at least six cars in the last year alone. Verified by both written and verbal corespondence.

5) During the time I have known, Mr. Fetcher has, "bad mouthed," at least three other tuner's in the presence of myself and a witness. Some of these tuner's were professionals when he was wearing diapers.

6) According to him, in presence of myself and a witness, he has served jail time for, "assualt."

My Personal Opinion

1) He is absulotely a liar.
2) He is no more than a , "Thief."
3) Character, from scale of 0-10. He is big zero in my opinion.
4) Opinion regarding his so called overhyped experience on scale of 0-10. I give him a, Two. This guy is full of crp..
5) If received $50,000 in free modification money to use on another car and had to use the services of, "Force Fed Performance," to obtain the funds, I would not do it. The liability in time, frustration and various others matters dealing with them would easily outweigh any economic/enjoyment advantage. I would rate my experience with them as a -10.
6) I have found Mr. Fetcher to be particularly aggressive and combative in some of my past conversations with him. In fact, according to him, again, in front a witness, this has gotten him in trouble of at least two occasions.

Further, I think that his combative and vocally abraisive nature stems from the fact, that he is the size of a runt, "Chihuahua."

THIS MY FIRST AND LAST POST ON THIS THREAD. 1) I AM NOT OPENING THIS UP FOR DISCUSSION ON THIS PARTICULAR POST and 2) I WILL BE RESPONDING TO ANY COMMENTS. It will be interesting to see if any more information comes forth regarding ones actual experiences with FFP.

 

lol..I think I'll stay away from FFP.

 

Looks like the real truth is coming out now...

 

wow..

 

Well this is shitty..Im in the market for tuning too