AutoX / Track Wheels
10-07-2009, 01:03 PM
#21
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Ok, I'll bite, I'm bored :-). First off, please reference any manufacture producing aluminum wheels which state in writing they warranty them if you damage a wheel hitting a pothole or other obstacle on the road they will "warranty" and replace it for free.
You're not purchasing sears tools whereas you think you can just warranty a wheel because you happen to hit a serious road hazard. If you want rock-climbing wheels, we could build them, something you’re probably not going to want to use for the street or other performance areas as they would be built for rock climbing and you probably could go through those potholes and not bend a wheel as you would with others.
Second of all you apparently do not understand the properties of aluminum and what corrosive materials like salt and such will do to them. I can't believe you'd ever consider taking a high-end wheel even if it's coated (which completely changes the luster of material...a good reason why you rarely see a manufacture coat them) and use them for winter or sub-par road usage.
We build racing products, not replica or average street cast aluminum products. Casting is a cost effective method that is generally durable but not considered optimally designed for performance. Racing products are for racing encompassing baha, sprint, road racing, drag racing etc. They are highly specific products designed to optimize needs for that criteria. Street wheels in general are just that, as a vague general statement, to help the car get from place to place able to withstand winter, summer, spring fall conditions. That won't compare to a product that is designed to take far greater stress levels than an extreme race-specific wheel is designed for.
Now if we're talking everyday general usage driving through crap weather, dirt roads etc...I think you'd be a fool to use a high-end high dollar wheel, not because you're going to damage them because they won’t take the stress, but it’s because you don't want to abuse a product you care about and you want it to continue looking good.
…That would be like purchasing a Lamborghini and saying it’s not good enough of a product because you can't drive it in the snow!!
You're not purchasing sears tools whereas you think you can just warranty a wheel because you happen to hit a serious road hazard. If you want rock-climbing wheels, we could build them, something you’re probably not going to want to use for the street or other performance areas as they would be built for rock climbing and you probably could go through those potholes and not bend a wheel as you would with others.
Second of all you apparently do not understand the properties of aluminum and what corrosive materials like salt and such will do to them. I can't believe you'd ever consider taking a high-end wheel even if it's coated (which completely changes the luster of material...a good reason why you rarely see a manufacture coat them) and use them for winter or sub-par road usage.
We build racing products, not replica or average street cast aluminum products. Casting is a cost effective method that is generally durable but not considered optimally designed for performance. Racing products are for racing encompassing baha, sprint, road racing, drag racing etc. They are highly specific products designed to optimize needs for that criteria. Street wheels in general are just that, as a vague general statement, to help the car get from place to place able to withstand winter, summer, spring fall conditions. That won't compare to a product that is designed to take far greater stress levels than an extreme race-specific wheel is designed for.
Now if we're talking everyday general usage driving through crap weather, dirt roads etc...I think you'd be a fool to use a high-end high dollar wheel, not because you're going to damage them because they won’t take the stress, but it’s because you don't want to abuse a product you care about and you want it to continue looking good.
…That would be like purchasing a Lamborghini and saying it’s not good enough of a product because you can't drive it in the snow!!
Anyways, I go back to my previously asked question. And again, I understand that the wheels are a higher grade of alum...so please don't go there. But, why are the wheels listed as "off road use only", other then it could ruin the finish of the wheel?
Just curious is all. 
10-07-2009, 02:13 PM
#22
There's a disconnect somewhere. Finish has nothing to do with whether a wheel is called a street wheel or a non-street wheel.
Road course racing sees very high forces for extended periods of time; Avg. Street wheels are not designed for these long duration high intensity periods. You need a more durable specific designed wheel. A road race wheel can handle the stress of a street wheel easily, but not the other way around.
If you are more interested in our products, feel free to give me a call.
Road course racing sees very high forces for extended periods of time; Avg. Street wheels are not designed for these long duration high intensity periods. You need a more durable specific designed wheel. A road race wheel can handle the stress of a street wheel easily, but not the other way around.
If you are more interested in our products, feel free to give me a call.
10-07-2009, 05:06 PM
#23
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I think he's just asking why it says "not for street use" on your web site??? Surely everyone knows a road race wheel is stronger than a street wheel. Would like to see some more pictures though. The black car is nice, pic sucks, but car looks good. Wanna see more cars, and read less....
Chris
Chris
10-07-2009, 05:47 PM
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basically, you can use road race specific wheels on the street just fine, but that's not they're intended purpose. so if you have a street car and your just looking for some good looking wheels, your not going to buy these, you'd buy some american racing rebels, z06's, etc. or you can look at it like you can use an "off-road" y-pipe on the street, but it's not "meant" for use on daily drivers for emissions. in my opinion, if i had a dedicated road race car, i'd go for them, but it's not first on my list for a daily.
10-07-2009, 06:21 PM
#26
Pretty much. There are advantages to using a lighter road race wheel from a performance standpoint...many times they look much better too. But upgrades and higher quality wheels aren't free.
If it matters, your braking distances INCREASE with those heavier wheels not to mention your racing times will INCREASE. For the guys who purchase those heavy wheels...it ironic, they will spend thousands on an upgraded brake setup to help stop quicker. Other disadvantages are the heavier wheels decrease handling performance...what I'm trying to state is that unfortunately people overlook important areas. Realistically, never neglect unsprung and rotational weight.
I can't compete with pricing to a cast inexpensive wheel...but you get what you pay for.
If it matters, your braking distances INCREASE with those heavier wheels not to mention your racing times will INCREASE. For the guys who purchase those heavy wheels...it ironic, they will spend thousands on an upgraded brake setup to help stop quicker. Other disadvantages are the heavier wheels decrease handling performance...what I'm trying to state is that unfortunately people overlook important areas. Realistically, never neglect unsprung and rotational weight.
I can't compete with pricing to a cast inexpensive wheel...but you get what you pay for.
10-07-2009, 08:15 PM
#27
Steve, stop it.
Your own website says your wheels are for racing only.
Bogart Racing Wheels are for racing only! They are not built or intended for street use!
As a Mechanical Engineer, you know the design of a street wheel and a race wheel is different. Different products for different needs. Stop dancing around the fact that your wheels are not suitable for use as a street wheel. You say it yourself on your own website. I'm not saying they're not good enough - I'm saying they're not designed for the type of environment you'll see on the street.
Your own website says your wheels are for racing only.
Bogart Racing Wheels are for racing only! They are not built or intended for street use!
As a Mechanical Engineer, you know the design of a street wheel and a race wheel is different. Different products for different needs. Stop dancing around the fact that your wheels are not suitable for use as a street wheel. You say it yourself on your own website. I'm not saying they're not good enough - I'm saying they're not designed for the type of environment you'll see on the street.
10-07-2009, 08:30 PM
#28
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Dude won't answer the question. Either he's not smart enough to understand or he's deceptive. Either way, do you want to buy a high dollar wheel from him and then run it at 140 m.p.h. near a concrete wall?
10-07-2009, 09:14 PM
#29
Steve, stop it.
Your own website says your wheels are for racing only.
Bogart Racing Wheels are for racing only! They are not built or intended for street use!
As a Mechanical Engineer, you know the design of a street wheel and a race wheel is different. Different products for different needs. Stop dancing around the fact that your wheels are not suitable for use as a street wheel. You say it yourself on your own website. I'm not saying they're not good enough - I'm saying they're not designed for the type of environment you'll see on the street.
Your own website says your wheels are for racing only.
Bogart Racing Wheels are for racing only! They are not built or intended for street use!
As a Mechanical Engineer, you know the design of a street wheel and a race wheel is different. Different products for different needs. Stop dancing around the fact that your wheels are not suitable for use as a street wheel. You say it yourself on your own website. I'm not saying they're not good enough - I'm saying they're not designed for the type of environment you'll see on the street.
If you truely feel that way, stick with the cast street wheel and don't choose a performance setup. Performance doesn't always mean weaker, it can mean a product is optimized using different methods of construction and materials. I believe I have also stated that I'd put these wheels up against typical street design and prove stronger and more durable in any test.
I have no further response in this thread. I simply attempted to offer advise and products that would directly meet your goals, but it's turned into something else.
Last edited by SJM Manufacturing Inc; 10-07-2009 at 09:30 PM.
10-07-2009, 09:25 PM
#30
Yes, that must be it. I can't possibly understand. I'm just not as intelligent, nor as educated as you and just don't get it.
You've got a lot nerve to tell me - the guy who started this freaking thread - that *I* need to go on to something else. I asked to see what types of autox wheels people were running. You showed me your products. Fine. Now move along so some other people can add their input.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!
Bogart Racing Wheels are for racing only! They are not built or intended for street use!
You've got a lot nerve to tell me - the guy who started this freaking thread - that *I* need to go on to something else. I asked to see what types of autox wheels people were running. You showed me your products. Fine. Now move along so some other people can add their input.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!
Bogart Racing Wheels are for racing only! They are not built or intended for street use!
10-07-2009, 09:38 PM
#31
Yes, that must be it. I can't possibly understand. I'm just not as intelligent, nor as educated as you and just don't get it.
You've got a lot nerve to tell me - the guy who started this freaking thread - that *I* need to go on to something else. I asked to see what types of autox wheels people were running. You showed me your products. Fine. Now move along so some other people can add their input.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!
Bogart Racing Wheels are for racing only! They are not built or intended for street use!
You've got a lot nerve to tell me - the guy who started this freaking thread - that *I* need to go on to something else. I asked to see what types of autox wheels people were running. You showed me your products. Fine. Now move along so some other people can add their input.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!
Bogart Racing Wheels are for racing only! They are not built or intended for street use!
Road race wheels can easily handle any street application, but a typical street wheel will not last on the typical road race application. To the poster regarding running a car at 140mph near a concrete wall...I would 1000% take a road race wheel running on a track over a street wheel in that scenerio as the street wheel will probably fail quicker.
...now I'm done.
10-08-2009, 08:04 AM
#32
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after seeing the disgusting, arrogant attitude steve has, i will never, ever buy a thing from him, and as long as i have a voice and fingers to type, i will tell everyone else who will listen to never spend a penny on him.
all hes doing this entire thread is hocking his wares. that kind of shameless self promotion makes me sick. if his wheels are SO superior then everything else on the planet, why the need to brag the living **** out of them online? why not let the real world results speak for themselves?? this guy talks his products up worse the ham strano, and he makes me puke every time i read how his springs/shocks/bars are light years ahead of the universe.
after all of the autoxs and track days ive been to, i have never seen anyone running bogart road race wheels. IF, that is a big IF, you are running in a class like AIX, where you actually make money off the race, have sponsors, and where ounces may count, then i can see blowing $1300 just for rims. but the OP asked for AUTOX/TRACK wheels.....NOT wheels for an all out no expense spared race car. do you REALLY think your wheels are going to help SO much during a local autox, where the only thing youll win in a dime store trophy?
to make such an arrogant, blanket statement that everyone who has a different opinion then your own is stupid and not listening really shows what kind of class of person you are. to say something like 'if you dont run my wheels then you dont care about racing and arent really trying' only proves what arrogance runs in the industry, and shows why people have such low opinions of companies who hock their products like its a turkish bazaar.
the OP asked for pics and thoughts on what people are using for autox/track days. you gave him an extremely high end option. thats ALL you should have said or done. there was no need to rant on about how better your products are and how the road race wheels will knock off 10 seconds a lap and give you a handjob when youre done, and especially how stupid everyone else is if they have a different opinion then your own.
i dont care if your rims will instantly give me FTD, cure cancer and AIDS and end world hunger. after you and you alone spewed your verbal diarrhea, i will never, ever give you a cent of my money, and make damn sure everyone else i know does the same. your posts really make me laugh and feel sorry for you, since obviously your company must be doing so bad, you have to come on a forum and sell your soul just to make a dollar.
all hes doing this entire thread is hocking his wares. that kind of shameless self promotion makes me sick. if his wheels are SO superior then everything else on the planet, why the need to brag the living **** out of them online? why not let the real world results speak for themselves?? this guy talks his products up worse the ham strano, and he makes me puke every time i read how his springs/shocks/bars are light years ahead of the universe.
after all of the autoxs and track days ive been to, i have never seen anyone running bogart road race wheels. IF, that is a big IF, you are running in a class like AIX, where you actually make money off the race, have sponsors, and where ounces may count, then i can see blowing $1300 just for rims. but the OP asked for AUTOX/TRACK wheels.....NOT wheels for an all out no expense spared race car. do you REALLY think your wheels are going to help SO much during a local autox, where the only thing youll win in a dime store trophy?
to make such an arrogant, blanket statement that everyone who has a different opinion then your own is stupid and not listening really shows what kind of class of person you are. to say something like 'if you dont run my wheels then you dont care about racing and arent really trying' only proves what arrogance runs in the industry, and shows why people have such low opinions of companies who hock their products like its a turkish bazaar.
the OP asked for pics and thoughts on what people are using for autox/track days. you gave him an extremely high end option. thats ALL you should have said or done. there was no need to rant on about how better your products are and how the road race wheels will knock off 10 seconds a lap and give you a handjob when youre done, and especially how stupid everyone else is if they have a different opinion then your own.
i dont care if your rims will instantly give me FTD, cure cancer and AIDS and end world hunger. after you and you alone spewed your verbal diarrhea, i will never, ever give you a cent of my money, and make damn sure everyone else i know does the same. your posts really make me laugh and feel sorry for you, since obviously your company must be doing so bad, you have to come on a forum and sell your soul just to make a dollar.
10-08-2009, 10:15 AM
#33
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he said in his second post that these wheels aren't for everybody and that it's just one of the area's people shouldn't overlook. it's when yal jumped on him about the "for off-road use only" deal and he tried to explain it when everybody got pissy.
10-08-2009, 09:53 PM
#34
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About the off road y pipe, umm, it's off road because Cats are required on all newer cars. So, running without cats would be illegal, so they have to state that it's for off road use only. So, with that being said, since Steve agreed with that statement...is it illegal to run these wheels on the street based on the DOT or other regulating officials? Just want this question answered so I know.
10-08-2009, 11:28 PM
#35
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See the problem is he never truly never gave a answer to why these wheels are off road use only. So, I'm still waiting.
About the off road y pipe, umm, it's off road because Cats are required on all newer cars. So, running without cats would be illegal, so they have to state that it's for off road use only. So, with that being said, since Steve agreed with that statement...is it illegal to run these wheels on the street based on the DOT or other regulating officials? Just want this question answered so I know.
About the off road y pipe, umm, it's off road because Cats are required on all newer cars. So, running without cats would be illegal, so they have to state that it's for off road use only. So, with that being said, since Steve agreed with that statement...is it illegal to run these wheels on the street based on the DOT or other regulating officials? Just want this question answered so I know.
I'm going to back Steve in this arguement, because it seems that all of you other posters are the ones that are getting pissed off for him defending himself. You all brought out the "off-road use only" thing, and he answered your questions, but apparently it wasn't what you wanted to hear.
10-08-2009, 11:44 PM
#36
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This thread is gettin good lol..Try callin Steve up at SJM and talk about options/purchasing a set of his bogart wheels(which are damn nice btw). The next thing you know the conversation has turned to why you now need a 12 bolt because the stock 10 bolt isnt strong enough or why you now need suspension components because the stockers just wont cut it with a set of these lightweight racing wheels LMAO. I guess it's just the salesman in him.
But, with that being said....I may very well give my left nut for a set of the bogart RR wheels on the black SS in 2nd post.
But, with that being said....I may very well give my left nut for a set of the bogart RR wheels on the black SS in 2nd post.
10-08-2009, 11:50 PM
#37
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See the problem is he never truly never gave a answer to why these wheels are off road use only. So, I'm still waiting.
About the off road y pipe, umm, it's off road because Cats are required on all newer cars. So, running without cats would be illegal, so they have to state that it's for off road use only. So, with that being said, since Steve agreed with that statement...is it illegal to run these wheels on the street based on the DOT or other regulating officials? Just want this question answered so I know.
About the off road y pipe, umm, it's off road because Cats are required on all newer cars. So, running without cats would be illegal, so they have to state that it's for off road use only. So, with that being said, since Steve agreed with that statement...is it illegal to run these wheels on the street based on the DOT or other regulating officials? Just want this question answered so I know.
10-09-2009, 11:59 AM
#39
I'd imagine it has something to do with they're intended use, and warranty claims.
I'm going to back Steve in this arguement, because it seems that all of you other posters are the ones that are getting pissed off for him defending himself. You all brought out the "off-road use only" thing, and he answered your questions, but apparently it wasn't what you wanted to hear.
I'm going to back Steve in this arguement, because it seems that all of you other posters are the ones that are getting pissed off for him defending himself. You all brought out the "off-road use only" thing, and he answered your questions, but apparently it wasn't what you wanted to hear.
Most race parts are designed for racing. That also means they're not designed to survive winter driving for 10 years and 100k miles on city streets. Whatever engineering criteria an OEM wheel has to meet for safety and durability obviously doesn't apply to a race only design.
I also don't appreciate the "My crap is best, and you don't understand if you don't agree with me." Any engineer will tell you all designs are a compromise. You want light, strong, and cheap. Pick any two.
