Can anyone rate my system?
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,157
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From: Texas
Originally Posted by Richiec77
I'm 50%/50% on that. Most people get EQ's and don't use them correctly. They are suppose to smooth the Repsonse of a system. Tone Controls (bass and treble) are for making it sound like you want it to.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,337
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From: Auburn, AL
Originally Posted by tuffluck
but like i said, it's your car, so go ahead and do that which you want. i am offering advice and my own experience so that you can not make the same mistakes as i (and others) have done, not so you can get defensive for why you think you're right and i'm wrong 
Last edited by quickWS6; Mar 3, 2005 at 08:30 PM.
Originally Posted by quickWS6
Dude, I'm not going to get into some pissing match with you. I never said that I was right and you are wrong. I'm absolutely positive that a component system would sound better than what I am installing. All I want is something that is easy to install, sounds decent, and doesn't cost a lot.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,337
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From: Auburn, AL
Originally Posted by tuffluck
i realize that, but i was just trying to give you other options and explain to you that components are simple to install and that one set of components really doesn't cost that much more than 2 sets of coaxials. you were being defensive by saying that you don't want a competition level system when that's not at all what i was suggesting. and like i've already stated, it is your car, so you can do what you want.
I was saying I didn't want a competition system because the thread turned into a discussion about a level of sound quality that I'm not expecting to get.
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick
Well a perfectly ballanced stereo sounds like ***. I know this cause I build a car that scored a perfect 40 on RTA. It sounded horriable but he wanted to win trophys and thats exactly what he did. A EQ allows you to adjust the sound how you like it but also allows you to bring out frequencys that your box or transducer wont replicate as loud as the others. Just allows him to customize the sound to his exact liking. After all, thats why he put in aftermarket parts to begin with. Why not make the most of it?
About 10 years ago I attended an Autosound 2000 Lecture where Richard Clark explained the use of an RTA and Frequency responses.
He showed a Horse with all it parts in the Right spots and a corresponding graph. It was smoothed out mostly ( about a 32-35 MAX RTA).
Then He pulled out a Horse with the Parts all over the place (Head in the *** lol) and the Perfect Response graph. Made Exacltly the same point that you proved above. That is why you see extra EQ's just for those Points.
As Far as Rear fill goes, Just because it is done in a Comp car or someone elses car, doesn't prove anything. FROM MY EXPERIENCE, Most cars benifit from Rear Fill.
Who has installed a center Channel or Placed Tweeters higher up on the A-Pillars to raise the Sound stage????? You can use your factory rear speakers to possibly accomplish this also, and not spend anything on the speakers.
Last edited by Richiec77; Mar 4, 2005 at 02:11 PM.
i think i disagree 
the concept of rear fill is silly if you think about it. take a concert, for instance. where is the noise coming from you? from the front, not from the rear. if speakers were behind you, that would seem extremely odd to be listening and having music come from behind; it would almost be confusing. and that's generally what rear fill does - confuses the ear.
in all honesty, if you haven't ever bought $400+ components and plugged them into your car, you can't possibly say that rear fill speakers are more beneficial. hell, i can get my $150 components so loud up front that you'll think the music is completely surrounding you. all it takes is a little stereo intelligence and money to make rear fill totally and utterly useless.
i know several f-body friends with rear fill that have eventually faded their music all the way to the front, and swear they wish they had never wasted the time on the rear fill. and they are NOT competition systems. to each their own though, and everyone has different preferences. the problem is that people generally want to believe what is common (speakers surrounding you), not what is absolutely GOING to sound better (good speakers coming from the front).
the concept of rear fill is silly if you think about it. take a concert, for instance. where is the noise coming from you? from the front, not from the rear. if speakers were behind you, that would seem extremely odd to be listening and having music come from behind; it would almost be confusing. and that's generally what rear fill does - confuses the ear.in all honesty, if you haven't ever bought $400+ components and plugged them into your car, you can't possibly say that rear fill speakers are more beneficial. hell, i can get my $150 components so loud up front that you'll think the music is completely surrounding you. all it takes is a little stereo intelligence and money to make rear fill totally and utterly useless.
i know several f-body friends with rear fill that have eventually faded their music all the way to the front, and swear they wish they had never wasted the time on the rear fill. and they are NOT competition systems. to each their own though, and everyone has different preferences. the problem is that people generally want to believe what is common (speakers surrounding you), not what is absolutely GOING to sound better (good speakers coming from the front).
Originally Posted by tuffluck
i think i disagree the concept of rear fill is silly if you think about it. take a concert, for instance. where is the noise coming from you? from the front, not from the rear. if speakers were behind you, that would seem extremely odd to be listening and having music come from behind; it would almost be confusing. and that's generally what rear fill does - confuses the ear.
the concept of rear fill is silly if you think about it. take a concert, for instance. where is the noise coming from you? from the front, not from the rear. if speakers were behind you, that would seem extremely odd to be listening and having music come from behind; it would almost be confusing. and that's generally what rear fill does - confuses the ear.So what Do you call Reflections????????? The word Ambience mean anything!!
And to clarify. When I said I don't recommend an EQ, It's for a general user. All sytems (Home, Car, Pro-Audio) benifit from equilization. It's a matter of knowing how to use it. So for a Normal Joe Schmo person a 10 band 1/2 DIN or 4-5 Band Parametric EQ is overkill and really won't help them out unless they know how to use them. Most people just add some bass or some treble and that's it. Same effect as the tone controls that are built into a radio. They don't try to smooth the system out or get rid of nasty Overhangs and resonants.
BTW 2muchricemakesmesick, When did you get the Z06? Looks sharp.
Last edited by Richiec77; Mar 4, 2005 at 02:13 PM.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,157
Likes: 1
From: Texas
Originally Posted by tuffluck
i think i disagree the concept of rear fill is silly if you think about it. take a concert, for instance. where is the noise coming from you? from the front, not from the rear. if speakers were behind you, that would seem extremely odd to be listening and having music come from behind; it would almost be confusing. and that's generally what rear fill does - confuses the ear.
in all honesty, if you haven't ever bought $400+ components and plugged them into your car, you can't possibly say that rear fill speakers are more beneficial. hell, i can get my $150 components so loud up front that you'll think the music is completely surrounding you. all it takes is a little stereo intelligence and money to make rear fill totally and utterly useless.
i know several f-body friends with rear fill that have eventually faded their music all the way to the front, and swear they wish they had never wasted the time on the rear fill. and they are NOT competition systems. to each their own though, and everyone has different preferences. the problem is that people generally want to believe what is common (speakers surrounding you), not what is absolutely GOING to sound better (good speakers coming from the front).
the concept of rear fill is silly if you think about it. take a concert, for instance. where is the noise coming from you? from the front, not from the rear. if speakers were behind you, that would seem extremely odd to be listening and having music come from behind; it would almost be confusing. and that's generally what rear fill does - confuses the ear.in all honesty, if you haven't ever bought $400+ components and plugged them into your car, you can't possibly say that rear fill speakers are more beneficial. hell, i can get my $150 components so loud up front that you'll think the music is completely surrounding you. all it takes is a little stereo intelligence and money to make rear fill totally and utterly useless.
i know several f-body friends with rear fill that have eventually faded their music all the way to the front, and swear they wish they had never wasted the time on the rear fill. and they are NOT competition systems. to each their own though, and everyone has different preferences. the problem is that people generally want to believe what is common (speakers surrounding you), not what is absolutely GOING to sound better (good speakers coming from the front).
And I guess the next thing your going to tell me is live music recordings sound good. And on your two speaker setup at that. If you had any concept of staging then you would know, the object is to NOT know where the sound comes from. Im sure you can turn up a component set loud but it will never fill the front and rear stages of the car without being louder (unballanced) in several places.
If anyone disagress with what I have to say thats fine. But first, go out to your car, turn the fader on the front two speakers only and tell me how you like that.
Youll see what im talking about.Oh and by the way. The best concerts that I have been to were indoors. They did have rear fill. They even put in speakers along the sides to give you that surround sound effect.
Last edited by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick; Mar 5, 2005 at 02:25 PM.
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick
I agree. I think its pretty safe to say that ALL cars will benefit from rear fill to get the full stage.
Super Expensive Speaker set-up. ($10,000 Each Subs. $50,000 Pair for the 5" and tweeters) Richard Clark convinced him to install rearfill and he then Dominated his class. They wrote up a Tech report on the Physics and all corresponding info.
FYI. Autosound 2000 Tech Labs is pretty much the Standard for Car Audio and HAve been for about 15 years now. Their Tech Lab reports are the best information out there for the car audio industry. These guys set the trends, and invent the techniques we use today.
But first, go out to your car, turn the fader on the front two speakers only and tell me how you like that. Youll see what im talking about.
btw, live recordings don't sound the best. the point i was making is that a live show will have the sound coming from the front, not the front and the rear. the point i was making has nothing to do with the sound quality coming from the instruments, but from the imaging.
and the whole point of this was to save money on rear fill. there is no doubt about it - if you have good components powered well, you definitely need no rear fill unless you just have to have it. do the fronts first and then decide if it's necessary.
Originally Posted by tuffluck
the point i was making is that a live show will have the sound coming from the front, not the front and the rear. the point i was making has nothing to do with the sound quality coming from the instruments, but from the imaging.
Why don't you mention a movie theater or home entertainment center as comparisson? Just because the movie is playing infront of you doesn't mean the sound is only coming from the front. Why do you think surround sound was invented?
I see you make that "live concert" comparisson in a lot of posts..and it's just a shitty comparisson to how car audio speakers should sound.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
From: Coppell,TX
I think theres a point in car audio where it just doesnt matter. Learn that point for yourself before you end up arguing like these two.
Benefits of Car Audio
1. learn basic electronics
2. learn basic acousics
3. pleases the ears
Problems of Car Audio(SQ)
1. Obsession
2. The Placebo factor
3. Hearing Loss.
4. no $
Id like to say that its coming to the point where the differences are so minute that its not worth it to spend so much damn money. Back say 20 yrs ago it would be fine cuz ur trying to make it sound reasonable but today nah. 200w was amazing in 1980(for car stereo). 20,000w today. 36v = end of mass amounts car audio people cuz no one will be able to tell the difference. (plz dont flame me this is just my opinion had to let it out.)
Benefits of Car Audio
1. learn basic electronics
2. learn basic acousics
3. pleases the ears
Problems of Car Audio(SQ)
1. Obsession
2. The Placebo factor
3. Hearing Loss.
4. no $
Id like to say that its coming to the point where the differences are so minute that its not worth it to spend so much damn money. Back say 20 yrs ago it would be fine cuz ur trying to make it sound reasonable but today nah. 200w was amazing in 1980(for car stereo). 20,000w today. 36v = end of mass amounts car audio people cuz no one will be able to tell the difference. (plz dont flame me this is just my opinion had to let it out.)
Originally Posted by Spenser309
I think theres a point in car audio where it just doesnt matter. Learn that point for yourself before you end up arguing like these two.
Benefits of Car Audio
1. learn basic electronics
2. learn basic acousics
3. pleases the ears
Problems of Car Audio(SQ)
1. Obsession
2. The Placebo factor
3. Hearing Loss.
4. no $
Id like to say that its coming to the point where the differences are so minute that its not worth it to spend so much damn money. Back say 20 yrs ago it would be fine cuz ur trying to make it sound reasonable but today nah. 200w was amazing in 1980(for car stereo). 20,000w today. 36v = end of mass amounts car audio people cuz no one will be able to tell the difference. (plz dont flame me this is just my opinion had to let it out.)
Benefits of Car Audio
1. learn basic electronics
2. learn basic acousics
3. pleases the ears
Problems of Car Audio(SQ)
1. Obsession
2. The Placebo factor
3. Hearing Loss.
4. no $
Id like to say that its coming to the point where the differences are so minute that its not worth it to spend so much damn money. Back say 20 yrs ago it would be fine cuz ur trying to make it sound reasonable but today nah. 200w was amazing in 1980(for car stereo). 20,000w today. 36v = end of mass amounts car audio people cuz no one will be able to tell the difference. (plz dont flame me this is just my opinion had to let it out.)
Sums it up well. 36v input will help, but doesn't end all problems.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,157
Likes: 1
From: Texas
Originally Posted by Spenser309
I think theres a point in car audio where it just doesnt matter. Learn that point for yourself before you end up arguing like these two.
Benefits of Car Audio
1. learn basic electronics
2. learn basic acousics
3. pleases the ears
Problems of Car Audio(SQ)
1. Obsession
2. The Placebo factor
3. Hearing Loss.
4. no $
Id like to say that its coming to the point where the differences are so minute that its not worth it to spend so much damn money. Back say 20 yrs ago it would be fine cuz ur trying to make it sound reasonable but today nah. 200w was amazing in 1980(for car stereo). 20,000w today. 36v = end of mass amounts car audio people cuz no one will be able to tell the difference. (plz dont flame me this is just my opinion had to let it out.)
Benefits of Car Audio
1. learn basic electronics
2. learn basic acousics
3. pleases the ears
Problems of Car Audio(SQ)
1. Obsession
2. The Placebo factor
3. Hearing Loss.
4. no $
Id like to say that its coming to the point where the differences are so minute that its not worth it to spend so much damn money. Back say 20 yrs ago it would be fine cuz ur trying to make it sound reasonable but today nah. 200w was amazing in 1980(for car stereo). 20,000w today. 36v = end of mass amounts car audio people cuz no one will be able to tell the difference. (plz dont flame me this is just my opinion had to let it out.)
Adding rear fill does not mean your obsessed and thats what were discussing.
I have a bose setup(factory) in my car now. I think it sounds TERRIABLE. I will be putting MB Quart Q series in really soon. I can tell a difference. A huge difference.
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
I tried running with no rear fill and I hated it. To make sure it wasn't my system (All Alpine and Infinity reference) I listened to a comp-level system and felt like something was missing. Just because it's "the professional way" doesn't make it right. It's all a matter of preference and, since it's your car, do what YOU like and forget what everyone else thinks you should do. Advice is nice but taking it is your choice.
Oh, and the point made above about concerts... he's right. Other than the "I'm there and can see the band" factor, the sound of any concert leaves a lot to be desired.
Oh, and the point made above about concerts... he's right. Other than the "I'm there and can see the band" factor, the sound of any concert leaves a lot to be desired.
Last edited by BigBadWolf; Mar 7, 2005 at 11:10 AM.
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick
Adding rear fill does not mean your obsessed and thats what were discussing.
I have a bose setup(factory) in my car now. I think it sounds TERRIABLE. I will be putting MB Quart Q series in really soon. I can tell a difference. A huge difference.
I have a bose setup(factory) in my car now. I think it sounds TERRIABLE. I will be putting MB Quart Q series in really soon. I can tell a difference. A huge difference.
I think this whole thread has gone
I'm going to write up a new thread to discuss rear fill.
I still like the way he summed it up. For us advanced guy's we can all argue till we're blue in the face, but it is good advice for begineers.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
From: Coppell,TX
SPL is like drag racing. SQ is like a car show. SPL there is a way of telling who is better. SQ its a group of peoples opinons.
But im getting the working man syndrome, "As long as it gets me from point a to point b im good."
But im getting the working man syndrome, "As long as it gets me from point a to point b im good."
Originally Posted by Spenser309
SPL there is a way of telling who is better.
a whole lot of SPL systems sound like ****, since they are only concentrating on reaching the highest decibel.