New sound system, would like help (LONG READ)
New sound system, would like help (LONG READ) Ok well I have decided to make a rear seat delete and I thought I might had a few speakers and a in-car computer.
Anyways, here is the plan. As you can probably tell I don't know much about sound systems but I've been doing some research and im learning as much as I can.
I plan on having the following:
2 61/2 Polk Audio db650 speakers in the q-logic feet surrounds
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/db650/
2 6 1/2 Polk Audio db650 speakers in the door panels (same speakers as above)
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/db650/
4 6x9 Polk Audio 690 in the flat rear seat delete I made
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/mmc690/
2 12" Polk MMAudio 2124 in the q=logic box which goes into the t-top holders
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/mm2124dvc/
This is were I am a little confused. How many amps do I need to run all this. The guy at the local best buy said I each channel to an amp is for one speaker. Is this true? I can only connect one speaker to one channel on the amp? Can I connect more then one? If I do will it decrease quality of sound.
So depending on the number of amps I need I will go with the Polk Audio C400.4 amps.
Also how many capacitors will I need and how many watts for each?
So, will this be a good system? Im not looking for the greatest sound quality but I don't want it to be bad either. Any help you guys can give me that would be great.
Anyways, here is the plan. As you can probably tell I don't know much about sound systems but I've been doing some research and im learning as much as I can.
I plan on having the following:
2 61/2 Polk Audio db650 speakers in the q-logic feet surrounds
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/db650/
2 6 1/2 Polk Audio db650 speakers in the door panels (same speakers as above)
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/db650/
4 6x9 Polk Audio 690 in the flat rear seat delete I made
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/mmc690/
2 12" Polk MMAudio 2124 in the q=logic box which goes into the t-top holders
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/mm2124dvc/
This is were I am a little confused. How many amps do I need to run all this. The guy at the local best buy said I each channel to an amp is for one speaker. Is this true? I can only connect one speaker to one channel on the amp? Can I connect more then one? If I do will it decrease quality of sound.
So depending on the number of amps I need I will go with the Polk Audio C400.4 amps.
Also how many capacitors will I need and how many watts for each?
So, will this be a good system? Im not looking for the greatest sound quality but I don't want it to be bad either. Any help you guys can give me that would be great.
You could do it with one low ohm capable 4 channel amp (running both fronts in parrallel and both rears in parrallel) and a solid class D subwoofer amp.
But, I got to tell you, that setup really, it makes zero sense at all. It is a common mistake to think that more speakers will sound better.
- In a setup where you have 1 set of properly powered 6.5" components... well... a 6x9 shouldn't be within 20 feet of that car. Honestly, I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish with the 6x9's. What? You'll have all the volume you need up front and all the bass you need for the subs. If you want rear fill then put another set of components in your sail panels. Two pairs of components with proper power can be plenty loud.
- There will be very little benefit from running 2 pairs of components up front. It will be nominally louder but you won't pick up any sound quality, and if properly powered one pair should be as loud as anyone would want it. If you are trying to pick up front bass then that is a poor decision as well, because the q-forms will not support that. You'd be better off dynamating your doors and/or considering some custom fab work to put 8"s in the doors, and use mids/tweets in the q-forms.
We could go on and on and on, but if you have this kind of cash and energy to play with there are MUCH more effective ways to get a MUCH better system then what you have in mind.
But, I got to tell you, that setup really, it makes zero sense at all. It is a common mistake to think that more speakers will sound better.
- In a setup where you have 1 set of properly powered 6.5" components... well... a 6x9 shouldn't be within 20 feet of that car. Honestly, I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish with the 6x9's. What? You'll have all the volume you need up front and all the bass you need for the subs. If you want rear fill then put another set of components in your sail panels. Two pairs of components with proper power can be plenty loud.
- There will be very little benefit from running 2 pairs of components up front. It will be nominally louder but you won't pick up any sound quality, and if properly powered one pair should be as loud as anyone would want it. If you are trying to pick up front bass then that is a poor decision as well, because the q-forms will not support that. You'd be better off dynamating your doors and/or considering some custom fab work to put 8"s in the doors, and use mids/tweets in the q-forms.
We could go on and on and on, but if you have this kind of cash and energy to play with there are MUCH more effective ways to get a MUCH better system then what you have in mind.
Thanks for the help. The speakers is mostly going to be just for looks. Im not trying to get the best quality sound of it or the cheapest possible way.
What exactly do you mean by parrallel? If you can tell me a little bit more about that I would appreciate it. Thanks
What exactly do you mean by parrallel? If you can tell me a little bit more about that I would appreciate it. Thanks
You wire two speakers up both positives to the positive on the amp, both negatives to the negative on the amp. Hooked up in parrallel, two 4 ohm speakers will put a 2 ohm load on the amp. Not all amps can drive 2 ohm loads, but many nowadays can. In this way you could get a monster of a 4 channel amp, and hook two speakers to each channel in parrallel.
But, again, the 6x9's are a little nuts. Post up your budget and get some suggestions on two best use the money,.
But, again, the 6x9's are a little nuts. Post up your budget and get some suggestions on two best use the money,.
dont do the carputer unless you have someone whos done it before and has a great interface. Its soo much work that someone who does not have an advanced knowledge of electronics will run into an infinite amount of problems like Dirty powersuplies, waves accross the monitor, preamp turn on noise, increased engine noise, overheating problems for computer and screen.
I don't really have a budget. Like I said its mostly for show.
Here is the plan.
Can I connect the two subs to polk c500.1 monoblock?
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/c500_1/
These subs http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/mm2124dvc/
Then I can buy 2 c400.4 and connect the rest of the speakers to those two
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/c400_4/
Would that work?
Here is the plan.
Can I connect the two subs to polk c500.1 monoblock?
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/c500_1/
These subs http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/mm2124dvc/
Then I can buy 2 c400.4 and connect the rest of the speakers to those two
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/c400_4/
Would that work?
Originally Posted by titus2669
So, will this be a good system? Im not looking for the greatest sound quality but I don't want it to be bad either. Any help you guys can give me that would be great.
I can appreciate wanting a system that looks good for shows, but the only people who would be impressed by this setup will be those who don't know a thing about systems, and just thing that more is better. Anyone who knows a thing about a nice sounding setup will simply roll their eyes in disgust, much like I did as I read your original plan.
If you want speakers in the doors and kickpanels, I would find a 3 way setup, with a midbass for the door, and a midrange and tweeter in the kickpanel. Then you only need 2 amp channels for left and right up front.
I would ditch the rear 6x9 idea totally, and just build a cool amp rack in the rear seat delete area. If you still insist on rear speakers, just put some new 6 1/2"s where the rear stockers are.
As for caps, they are just car audio jewelry, so get however many you feel you can fit in your install and can afford, as they offer very little real benefits to a system.
mike
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Nash-Vegas
Here was my set up in my 98 Camaro: 2 12 inch MTX 8000 subs, 6.5 MB Quart components for the front, 6.5 MB Quarts for backseat speakers, 1-farad Lightning capacitor, MTX 6500D class D mono amp for subs, and MTX 275x 2-channel amp for components and the other pair of 6.5's. I also had a audiobahn cross-over, and had the controls mounted under the dash. So, seeing you pretty much have the same set up as I.. I would recommend 2 amps for you. Get atleast a 750-800 watt rms class D mono amp for your subs ( 750-800 watt rms amp if you are pushing 2 12's, and 350-400 watts rms for 1 12). In my opinion you wont need the 6x9's, but its your car so do what you wanna. If you just run the the 2 pairs of 6.5's then go with a 2-channel amp that will push atleats 240 watts rms. If you decide you do wanna go with the 6x9's also, then get a 4-channel amp with atleast 340 watts rms. I would also recommend a 1.0 fared capicator. You will defiently have one of the nicest stereos around and Im gonna let you know that 2 12's in a F-body hit like 4 12's. You defiently have the right set-up.
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Nash-Vegas
Originally Posted by Mike @ FbodyAudio
it will be bad... atleast in my opinion.
I can appreciate wanting a system that looks good for shows, but the only people who would be impressed by this setup will be those who don't know a thing about systems, and just thing that more is better. Anyone who knows a thing about a nice sounding setup will simply roll their eyes in disgust, much like I did as I read your original plan.
If you want speakers in the doors and kickpanels, I would find a 3 way setup, with a midbass for the door, and a midrange and tweeter in the kickpanel. Then you only need 2 amp channels for left and right up front.
I would ditch the rear 6x9 idea totally, and just build a cool amp rack in the rear seat delete area. If you still insist on rear speakers, just put some new 6 1/2"s where the rear stockers are.
As for caps, they are just car audio jewelry, so get however many you feel you can fit in your install and can afford, as they offer very little real benefits to a system.
mike
I can appreciate wanting a system that looks good for shows, but the only people who would be impressed by this setup will be those who don't know a thing about systems, and just thing that more is better. Anyone who knows a thing about a nice sounding setup will simply roll their eyes in disgust, much like I did as I read your original plan.
If you want speakers in the doors and kickpanels, I would find a 3 way setup, with a midbass for the door, and a midrange and tweeter in the kickpanel. Then you only need 2 amp channels for left and right up front.
I would ditch the rear 6x9 idea totally, and just build a cool amp rack in the rear seat delete area. If you still insist on rear speakers, just put some new 6 1/2"s where the rear stockers are.
As for caps, they are just car audio jewelry, so get however many you feel you can fit in your install and can afford, as they offer very little real benefits to a system.
mike
I hate to disagree, but he is gonna have a nice stereo if he goes the route he has shown us. I ran a similar set-up as he, just different name brands and all my buddies with systems said they wanted theirs to sound like mine. He will have a serious stereo.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
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From: Nash-Vegas
You will need one, 1.0 Capacitor! Here is a little bit about capacitors (below).
Are your headlights and interior lights dimming every time a heavy bass note drops? Does your bass sometimes sound muddy and undefined? The problem could be your vehicle's charging system. Most vehicles' alternators and batteries were truly only designed to power the stock electronics. Add a stiffening capacitor between the battery and your amplifier to provide your amp with a lightning fast on-demand power reserve. Remember kids: It takes power to make power! The general rule of thumb when selecting a cap is 1 farad for every 1000 watts RMS. For example, a 750 watt RMS amplifier requires a 1-farad capacitor.
Are your headlights and interior lights dimming every time a heavy bass note drops? Does your bass sometimes sound muddy and undefined? The problem could be your vehicle's charging system. Most vehicles' alternators and batteries were truly only designed to power the stock electronics. Add a stiffening capacitor between the battery and your amplifier to provide your amp with a lightning fast on-demand power reserve. Remember kids: It takes power to make power! The general rule of thumb when selecting a cap is 1 farad for every 1000 watts RMS. For example, a 750 watt RMS amplifier requires a 1-farad capacitor.
Originally Posted by CamaroSS615
I hate to disagree, but he is gonna have a nice stereo if he goes the route he has shown us. I ran a similar set-up as he, just different name brands and all my buddies with systems said they wanted theirs to sound like mine. He will have a serious stereo.
I'm confused here... I agree that your setup, based on your description was a nice design... a set of components up front, a set of speakers for the back, and some subs.
He is talking about 2 sets of components up front, and 2 sets of 6x9's in the back.
Originally Posted by Mike @ FbodyAudio
I'm confused here... I agree that your setup, based on your description was a nice design... a set of components up front, a set of speakers for the back, and some subs.
He is talking about 2 sets of components up front, and 2 sets of 6x9's in the back.
He is talking about 2 sets of components up front, and 2 sets of 6x9's in the back.
Yeah, Mike is right. having TOO many speakers playing the same ranges of frequencies will help NOTHING but volume and make it extremely difficult to make it a Sound Quality driven car. The only way more speakers works to your advantage is if each speaker has a different frequency range, thus enhancing imaging characteristics.
The hardest part of all by using all these speakers would be to Time Align each one so that they all hit the drivers ear at the same time which is a task in itself.
Basically, the KISS principle should be taken into consideration when Sound Quality is a factor, if you dont care and just want to shove as many speakers in the car as possible for bling, thats another story.
I think there are people in here trying to nicely tell you that using two sets of components up front along with 4 6x9's in a rear seat delete box is complete and utter waste of money and time. You might as well go out and buy a bunch of Bose home speakers while your at it and toss them in there too.
I think the main point is who you are trying to impress, if anyone. If you are trying to impress a bunch of kids or people who know very little about audio, then it might be a creative route, it will look pretty neat and will definitely be unique and put a lot a volume outside the car.
If you are trying to create a top-notch sound system that would be at home in local competitions and garner the approval of experienced system builders, you need to rethink your approach, and wipe some of these ideas straight out of your head.
But as the old saying goes, it is your car and you can do what you want. You asked for evaluations and there are people giving you the brutally honest truth with some much better alternative approaches.
Whatever you decide to do, people will help should you have problems, and it is always interesting to see unique setups. Post up whatever you end up with.
Peace.
I think the main point is who you are trying to impress, if anyone. If you are trying to impress a bunch of kids or people who know very little about audio, then it might be a creative route, it will look pretty neat and will definitely be unique and put a lot a volume outside the car.
If you are trying to create a top-notch sound system that would be at home in local competitions and garner the approval of experienced system builders, you need to rethink your approach, and wipe some of these ideas straight out of your head.
But as the old saying goes, it is your car and you can do what you want. You asked for evaluations and there are people giving you the brutally honest truth with some much better alternative approaches.
Whatever you decide to do, people will help should you have problems, and it is always interesting to see unique setups. Post up whatever you end up with.
Peace.
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 297
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From: Chicago
FWIW, the camaro/firebird cars have relatively low amount of dimensional volume inside. Having all those speakers in such close proximity will just give you a big headache real fast.
What's the point of looks if when turned on it sounds like crap.....
What's the point of looks if when turned on it sounds like crap.....
Im here to take in all your peoples options, that is why I posted this. And I appreciate your replies.
So what would I need to change in this setup to make it sound better? I would really like to keep the 4 6x9 in the back because I have already made the cutouts in the rear seat delete for them, but it seems like they are going to be usless according to some people on here.
So what would I need to change in this setup to make it sound better? I would really like to keep the 4 6x9 in the back because I have already made the cutouts in the rear seat delete for them, but it seems like they are going to be usless according to some people on here.
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 61
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yeah im not sure about that set up at all, in my last camaro i had a kenwood component 6-1/2" in the back seat and kenwood 6-1/2" in the front those were ran off of a 4 channel rockford amp, and i took out those very last rear speakers all together, also there was two 12" rockford HX2s powered by a rockford power 1000.a2, i got complements every where... hit very hard and was clear as far as you could stand to turn it up, but keep us posted and let us know in what direction you decide to go, if you did that setup im sure it would turn heads but like everyone is saying i dont think it would sound very good but keep us posted
Post up some information about the rear seat delete box. Maybe you can throw 4 10" or 12" subs in there, use it as an amp rack, and get your rear well back for the t-tops.
It'll look very impressive having a nice amp mount and all those subs in that "showy" area.
It'll look very impressive having a nice amp mount and all those subs in that "showy" area.
I'll snap a picture of the rear seat delete when I get my camera back.
I've talked to a couple more people and they said that it wont sound very good but it will be okay for what I am going for. I'm not going to add the kick panels just yet and see how it sounds with 2 6 1/2 compontents in the front and the 4 6x9s in the back.
The t-tops, when take off, will be laying in the back on the rear seat delete with some custom brackets. I don't usually take the t-tops off a lot because with CA weather I need the AC on. I appreciate everbodies help and I'll post pictures a little later. I'll let you guys know how it turns out and how it sounds.
I've talked to a couple more people and they said that it wont sound very good but it will be okay for what I am going for. I'm not going to add the kick panels just yet and see how it sounds with 2 6 1/2 compontents in the front and the 4 6x9s in the back.
The t-tops, when take off, will be laying in the back on the rear seat delete with some custom brackets. I don't usually take the t-tops off a lot because with CA weather I need the AC on. I appreciate everbodies help and I'll post pictures a little later. I'll let you guys know how it turns out and how it sounds.
One last question. If I decide to go with 4 amps in the back. Which head unit do I go with? I see head units which have 3 preouts but wouldn't I need 4 because I have 4 amps? How would I go about this?
Here are some progress pictures of the install. I still need two more amps next to the one I have. And of course I still need the 4 speakers in the holes and the two component sets in the front. Its kind of dirty but it will all be cleaned up once its all finished. Still waiting on some parts for the computer. All the fans light up red. Any comments, good or bad. Thanks
