driver window problems
Copy & Paste Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,764
Likes: 208
From: Eastern MA
Originally Posted by TJ
not everyone can do it in 30 minutes, but thats how it works sometimes.
Originally Posted by TJ
they go by the book, the book says 9 days..... you get charged for 9 days.
they dont take off labor cause it was fixed faster.
thats business.
they dont take off labor cause it was fixed faster.
thats business.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,328
Likes: 345
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Having worked in a dealership, I can understand the need for flat-rate pricing. For one, the customer would have no assurance that the mechanic wasn't just ******* it if he was paying straight time. With flat-rate the mechanic gets paid the same amount whether he gets the job done on time or he takes all day. This is an incentive to try to get the job done in the allocated time so he can move on to another vehicle. The flat-rate also doesn't take into account that some jobs will involve rusted fasteners and other problems that will slow the job - so while the mechanic may get ahead on some jobs he will fall behind on others. It certainly isn't a perfect system but it's more consistent and fair than straight time would be in most cases.
There are numerous examples of ridiculous flat-rate times in both directions (some are too long and some are too short). For example, the flat rate to replace a clutch in a V-12 Jaguar is 24 hours (3 days!). An experienced mechanic can do it in less than half that time. On the other hand, the flat-rate to replace spark plugs on some older V-8 Mustangs is 0.8 (48 minutes) despite the fact that it's almost impossible to reach the right rear plug from under the hood.
There are numerous examples of ridiculous flat-rate times in both directions (some are too long and some are too short). For example, the flat rate to replace a clutch in a V-12 Jaguar is 24 hours (3 days!). An experienced mechanic can do it in less than half that time. On the other hand, the flat-rate to replace spark plugs on some older V-8 Mustangs is 0.8 (48 minutes) despite the fact that it's almost impossible to reach the right rear plug from under the hood.
Copy & Paste Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,764
Likes: 208
From: Eastern MA
Originally Posted by TJ
not everyone can do it in 30 minutes, but thats how it works sometimes.
they go by the book, the book says 9 days..... you get charged for 9 days.
they dont take off labor cause it was fixed faster.
thats business.
they go by the book, the book says 9 days..... you get charged for 9 days.
they dont take off labor cause it was fixed faster.
thats business.
Originally Posted by TJ
not everyone can do it in 30 minutes, but thats how it works sometimes.
they go by the book, the book says 9 days..... you get charged for 9 days.
they dont take off labor cause it was fixed faster.
thats business.
they go by the book, the book says 9 days..... you get charged for 9 days.
they dont take off labor cause it was fixed faster.
thats business.
I had my window module replaced on the 97. It was a little over 300 bucks. I would do it myself in most cases, I wasn't in the mood to drill out ribbets than fart with pulling on the window, etc. It's just a hassle, some things are worth paying for, than the headache. As one has pointed out, I seem to have more money than time these days, when I was younger, it's I have more time than money.
oh, make sure the motor isn't out of aligned with the window. The 98 I bought had two bolts missing or they came loose. Too much bass, rofl. I ended up replacing the missing bolts and the window worked fine.
Originally Posted by VIP1
I've heard about the fixed labor times before. Thats why its such a racket. Its bullshit how they get away with it. They basically double or tripple charge their time (the fix your car in 30min and charge you for 2hrs, then go fix someone elses car in 30min and charge them for 2hrs.....etc). I told my father about this a while back and his response: "If they try that with me, I'll find something else for them to do for the rest of the time. I paid for them to work for me."
its not like you are getting COMEPLETELY ripped off.
if youve ever seen a dealer tech book, or know how they get formed into such an hourly event its pretty simple.
GM gets a professional mechanic to actually performs every job(supposed to) does it 3 times and averages the time, and thats what gets put in the book. this is what ive been told several times anyway.
sometimes it does suck at the 72.00 an hour labor, but thats another reason to stay buddy with your friends at the stealership.
Copy & Paste Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,764
Likes: 208
From: Eastern MA
Originally Posted by TJ
it does suck at the 72.00 an hour labor
EDIT:
I just spoke with them for some work.
Now its $85/hr.
Last edited by VIP1; Jul 31, 2006 at 09:10 AM.
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The labor studies do really happen. As other's have said it is not a perfect system, but if you think about it, it makes sense. There is far too much variation from one job to the next, from one mechanic to the next, to make real-time billing a good idea.
Everyone screams if the dealership puts 1 hour into a job that is billed at 2 hours, but does anyone want to talk about the job that takes 3 hours instead of the rated 2? Think about how many times you've tried to work on something on your car that SHOULD take 1 hour, only to put 2 or 3 into it, a rusted fastener, broken bolt, stuck part, things like that.
Good mechanics will eventually become rather faster than the rated times if they have to do the same procedure over and over again, no different than any other trade. The rates are set by timed studies using a typical mechanic, he doesn't have a chance to pick up the advantages someone would doing the same thing over and over again.
I hate dealerships as much as the next guy, but this is really the fairest system possible. Would you rather assume the liability for a lazy or slow mechanic, or some other mishap?
Everyone screams if the dealership puts 1 hour into a job that is billed at 2 hours, but does anyone want to talk about the job that takes 3 hours instead of the rated 2? Think about how many times you've tried to work on something on your car that SHOULD take 1 hour, only to put 2 or 3 into it, a rusted fastener, broken bolt, stuck part, things like that.
Good mechanics will eventually become rather faster than the rated times if they have to do the same procedure over and over again, no different than any other trade. The rates are set by timed studies using a typical mechanic, he doesn't have a chance to pick up the advantages someone would doing the same thing over and over again.
I hate dealerships as much as the next guy, but this is really the fairest system possible. Would you rather assume the liability for a lazy or slow mechanic, or some other mishap?
Copy & Paste Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,764
Likes: 208
From: Eastern MA
Originally Posted by todddchi
Everyone screams if the dealership puts 1 hour into a job that is billed at 2 hours, but does anyone want to talk about the job that takes 3 hours instead of the rated 2?
I have never seen a dealership under-charge.
If the book says 2hrs and it took 3hrs, they charge for 3hrs.
If the book says 2hrs and it took 1hr, they charge for 2hrs.
They come out ahead both times.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,328
Likes: 345
From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Originally Posted by VIP1
The book rate is the minimum.
I have never seen a dealership under-charge.
If the book says 2hrs and it took 3hrs, they charge for 3hrs.
If the book says 2hrs and it took 1hr, they charge for 2hrs.
They come out ahead both times.
I have never seen a dealership under-charge.
If the book says 2hrs and it took 3hrs, they charge for 3hrs.
If the book says 2hrs and it took 1hr, they charge for 2hrs.
They come out ahead both times.
Copy & Paste Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,764
Likes: 208
From: Eastern MA
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00
No, you need to find another dealer.
I just try to do the work myself whenever I can.
