92slowmaro

iTrader: (22)

alright so im building another 4l60e. and i wanted to do something more than just rebuilding it back to stock. i work for a dealership and all everyone wants stock so im going to build one for myself.

here is what i have ordered so far.

13 vain pump
z pak
super hold 4th gear billet servo
super hold 2nd gear servo
kevlar wide shift band
trans go shift kit
5 gear planetary set
beast sunshell
new clutches, seals, gaskets, etc
and set up for racing talerences

missing anything?

01ghostwhitez

iTrader: (3)

Sound very similiar to the build on my trans minus a borg warner master overhaul kit! My has a custom built 3000 stall in it as well and shifts very smooth with every day driving and very aggresively when at the track! Sounds like a good list to me.

Gilbert@Ace Racing

Take a look at the Stage 2 build list on my website for some options you might want to consider.

Why are you going with the 4th gear servo?

Why a Kevlar band?

And which 3/4 clutches ar eyou going with and how many?

g

92slowmaro

iTrader: (22)

4th gear-because its available, no real reason really

kevlar band-because its available, wider than stock for more holding, and kevlar seemed like it would hold better than saw a red band.

im going with a z pak. i believe that comes with raybestos clutches.

ill take a look at your site.

92slowmaro

iTrader: (22)

your stage 3 kit seems like what im building minus the sprag assemblies, clutches, and vacuum modulated, and machining for better lubrication.

and is it pretty much a trade secret on what/how you machine your parts for better lubrication?

Gilbert@Ace Racing

The lubrication / hydraulic mods are proprietary as you suspected. Those details are what makes our transmission what it is, plain and simple. Just like yourself and many other builders we purchase the exact same parts from the exact same manufacturers.

It is what one does with those parts that make the difference. We spent many, many months in R&D, spent many thousands of dollars making our units what they are today!

Lots of this went into the early efforts! Even today we make very subtle changes from time to time depending on the build.

Personally, I do not have much faith in the Z-Pack. I know many builders run them, I don't. Most high end builders don't. The reason I do not use them is they will cone up severly because they are thin and do not dissipate heat well at all. I ran them in high horsepower N2O combinations early on... with crappy success. I moved into seting up 8 Borg Warner High Energy clutches very tight and have not looked back.

The reason I asked about the Kevlar band is that they can be hard on the drum... especially when coupled with the aftermarket servos. We do run them, but mostly in the higher horsepowr combinations where we know we will see the unit again in the future when it is time to freshen it up. I was more interested in the reason why you chose it rather than concerned with the fact that you are running it. It is definately a durable component that has proven itself over time. We ordinarilly run the Alto Red band, it is a very nice piece that can take a punishment.

What about the sprags?

If you have any other questions along the way just holler!

g

will82

You need to do your homework before buying any parts, just because it is available doesn't mean you should get it.

I offered to pay RPM extra to build me a tranny and add some parts I had researched to my built transmission. They refused to take my money, and the gist of the explanation was that the parts I was requesting were too strong and would beat on/wear out other parts in the transmission, and that the combination of parts they used was the result of years of experience, testing, and trial/error.

So in the end I just went with their standard build, and it has performed well.

Gilbert@Ace Racing

Good point Will. Sometimes it is as much what you don't put in a transmission as muchas what you do put in one.

I have heard nothing but good things about Rodney and his units since I started paying attention to different builders around the country several years ago.

I forgot to speak to the Servo.

We have found that the Kevlar band and aftermarket servos can and will be abusive on the drum and anchor pin. That is not a bad thing if one plans on needing that sort of holding power. But, most street cars will never need it.

The wide bands when coupled with a stock servo, properly set up pin and most importantly properly set up hydraulics will be perfectly fine in most applications... even some with power adders!

Take a look at this thread and see what you think... https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/826792-ever-wonder-what-goes-into-ace-4l60e.html

I did not see any comments regarding the accumulator pistons... make sure you run aluminum pistons, not the plastic ones! Also, is your Input Drum sleeved?

g

92slowmaro

iTrader: (22)

i ended up getting the 29 element sprag tonight as well as the lower sprag. ill look into the 4th gear servo more and decide if i want to use it or not. with or without the 4th gear servo it should be a nice transmission when im finished.

Gilbert@Ace Racing

I agree... it will be nice.

Don't hesitate to give me a call if you would like to.

g

92slowmaro

iTrader: (22)

i may do that tomorrow. its slow at the shop.

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

1-I dont care for the kevlar band I prefer the redline or the carbon composite wide bands . Make sure the reverse input drum is straight. .005 max runout from end to end with composite and red band. With the kevlar get a new one period its not forgiving at all I have seen drums with as little as .001 burn the edges of the band they do not comform at all also be sure and check even a new drum the general easy rule is if you can see day light with a straight edge on the drum replace it.(Again dont like kevlar)

2-I do like the Zpack as I have had great success with them in some of our fastest cars with no issues at all to date. But if using the transgo 3rd release springs do not use the factory helper square black springs with them use one or the other.

3-Borg warner 29 element dual cage sprag a must .

4-5 pinion planets are good as long as they are OEM if aftermarket your better off with the 4 pin.

5-I also like the high energy COMPOSITE BLACK type forward frictions, Not the paper ones with the grooves, Forward clutch is not and upshifting clutch therefore does not need the additional cooling the grooves provide, Rather they need the friction area the grooves take away since the are allways applied and must take all the power of the engine.

6-The dual piston overdrive servo from sonnax is good but useless unless you plan on towing or going WOT shift to OD.

7-Either of the billet servos is good. I like the fairbanks because we have had good luck with it but the SONNAX seems to work well also.

8-Racing Tolerance thats interesting , I only have one comment 3-4 clutch clearance seems to work best with the Z pack at around .020 to .025. in a performance application.

9-Transgo kit is good I prefer to make a few changes to keep more accumulation at light throttle however. Beware of too many washers in the 1-2 accum. I actually prefer None.

10- Beast is good but I do suggest using the wider bushing in the sun gear under it as its a little heavier. But make sure you do not cover a lube hole on install. Though I have seen these run with the stock bushing without incident.

11-Sonnax pump slide spring is a good idea.

12-No matter how you do it max line should be limited to around 230 PSI we have to play with it when using the boost valve from sonnax or transgo to get it there when we do our vehicle test (DYNO COMING SOON )

Hope this info helps some.

92slowmaro

iTrader: (22)

good information. i ended up only paying like 8 bucks for the wide kevlar one so it wont hurt me to spend 8 bucks more and get a red band. if the pros are telling me no, i should listen

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

Kevlar is good in truck heavy duty operation we have some that tow 10000 pounds plus but not a good idea IMO for performance

PBA

Ratchthed "I moved into seting up 8 Borg Warner High Energy clutches very tight and have not looked back." I agree, I started doing this back in 1996 when they first come out on the market, as the Alto Red eagle clutches were not doing the job very well." performabuilt "No matter how you do it max line should be limited to around 230 PSI we have to play with it when using the boost valve from sonnax or transgo to get it there when we do our vehicle test." I have found that with the TransGo boost valve, the added actuator spring, TransGo vacuum modulator or the EPC solenoid, and a blue printed front pump, that 230-240psi is all you need to make it work right. performabuilt "I also like the high energy COMPOSITE BLACK type forward frictions, Not the paper ones with the grooves, Forward clutch is not and upshifting clutch therefore does not need the additional cooling the grooves provide," The reason for the grooves on this forward static clutch is for the clutches to come on before the forward accumulator bottoms out (this equals a smoother engagement). The previous generation Borg Warner forward clutches would not be applied fully when the forward accumulator bottomed out, and the forward clutches were known to wear some. TransGo solved this by adding a stiffer forward accumulator spring/s. But once the later generation Borg Warner grooved type forward clutch came out, the stock forward accumulator spring was fine. As for the high energy composite black type forward frictions, I guess they would be ok, but do not see the need as the BW frictions have worked in everything just fine. The grooves have nothing to do with cooling, they allow the clutches to apply quicker. Ratchthed "the Kevlar band can be hard on the drum... especially when coupled with the aftermarket servos." I have never used a Kevlar band for the reason stated, much to hard on the drum, and I do not like their shifting characteristics either. The Borg Warner Hi-Energy band has worked in units up to 800FWHP with the Corvette servo, and over 850FWHP with the larger servos. After that the extra wide Alto Carbon lined band seems to be the best (the jury is still out). As for the accumulation, this is one of the biggest reasons in keeping a unit alive once the right parts are in it, and keeping it "user friendly", and not "user antagonistic", in otherwords you want quick but smooth shifts.