UAW Statement On GM's Plant Closing Announcement
11-22-2005, 01:53 PM
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UAW Statement On GM's Plant Closing Announcement http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...uto-389400.htm
Whatever. I agree with the highlighted statement but that's it. GM has in fact relied too much on brand loyalty to sell cars. The only people who will take a POS Buick over a superior Lexus are folks who actually find the shape of a jelly bean pleasing, people who were suckered in by a large discount of some kind, or let's face it, n00b brand loyalists.
However... HOWEVER, the UAW drove GM toward this move with it's rediculous demands and constraints it placed on GM. For them to try to make it look like they are suffering and that this is all GMs fault is pure bullshit. The fact of the matter is that NO ONE in the Union wants to take a pay cut to try to help GM so you know what, FORGET THEM. The UAW are losing support amongst the American people IMO. If you look at the responses on tne net and the attitude toward the UAW, how many people are saying "f**k the Union?" The UAW has done nothing to help, and now they're going to pay for it.
However... HOWEVER, to be fair I will also say this... F**K GM. I'm sorry but there is simply no other way to put it. Those idiots at the top also have no right to simply blame the UAW. Yes I believe it's true that if the purse strings weren't so tight, and the UAW wasn't so frickin greedy, GM would have more money for R&D and could build a superior product... COULD build a superior product. I seriously doubt they actually would.
GM screwed itself 10 years ago when management didn't wake up and realize that the Japanese were kicking their ***. Rather than commit to building better products, they stuck to building the same old shoddy *** ****. They kept the venerable yet age old 3800 pushrod V6 around without improving it or refining it thinking that brand loyalty would keep GM at number one. Yah, well now you're fucked because YOU THOUGHT WRONG. How many years did GM have to get its Holden and Opel/Vauxhall lineups into the US market? For quite a while people have been saying that GM built its best products outside the US market, but rather than spend money on finding ways to either import or build its best products here in the US, they cut corners and sell us the same FWD shitbox powered by the same piece of **** pushrod V6 for years. And when GM begins to realize that brand loyalty no longer means as much as they had thought, they go and discount their cars??? WTF?
In 4 or 5 years when these people come in to trade in their vehicles, does GM actually expect them to pay MSRP or did anyone stop to think that these folk might actually be expecting another deal. DUMBASSES. GM needs to stop cutting corners and built products people WANT. Look at how many people chose to buy a slow *** 2.7L powered Chrysler 300 because they WANTED something that looked good when they could have bought an Accord that would have better suited their needs.
I blame the idiots who thought that assimilating other manufacturers a la Fiat and Subaru was the solution. That being able to buy everyone out and potentially hold a monopoly on the automotive industry allowing them to build nothing but crap shitboxes was the solution. I mean that just proves how much GM doesn't give a rip about building great products. It also demonstrates that GM doesn't care about its customers but rather relies on their stupidity. Their very idea of success was being able to force people to buy a POS simply because they would be this great empire that could still turn a profit from a cheap disposable product. And then someone thought that they could sell even more of these half-hearted products by slapping different headlights and grilles onto one car, and selling them all under different makes. Who would have thought 35 years ago that the Malibu, a nameplate which was once synonymous with the moniker Chevelle which packed GMs awesome 454 LS-6 under its cowl induction hood would share a platform with a FWD Saab Sport Wagon? "Not I" said the cat. "Not I" said the dog. "Not I" said the former GM fanboy who once bought only GM cars because it was the "right thing to do" but has now realized what an idiot he was and that the Japanese offer superior products for less money.
I also blame GMs dumbass designers and the people who approved their current slew of butt ugly products as much as I blame the UAW for being the greedy mothereffers that they are. GM thinks it can give us products that look like crap and still be able to sell these cars at MSRP. What GM brass doesn't realize is that people will pay extra for something they want, they will NOT pay extra to cover the UAWs rediculous wages. This is something the UAW also needs to wake up and realize.
I also blame the morons who thought up GMs latest bonehead move. Cancelling Zeta in the US to push GMT900 up by one year. ONE YEAR. OMFG. How many people were looking forward to Zeta? EVERYONE. Everyone was praising it and cheering GM for finally taking its products in a direction people actually wanted. But like any good thing at GM, we should have figured it wouldn't last. Instead GM goes and pushes up its heavy trucks and SUVs because they have "higher profit margins which will provide us with more money for R&D toward our passenger cars." So what, they give us yet another slew of half-hearted passenger cars for another 5 years and lose even more customers. What GM failed to realize was that GMT900 provides them with products that have "higher profit margins PROVIDED THEY SELL." I can tell you that with gas prices the way they are now, and with people moving to car based crossovers, I doubt the GMT900 SUVs will be the hit GM hopes they'll be. Trucks will always sell, but the SUVs are half of the project, and if they don't move off of the lots, GM loses out yet again.
GM is messed up, VERY messed up. And for a long time they tried to deny this and project the idea that "everything will right itself, and all will be ok." Yah well the time for everything to right itself is now and you know what, **** ain't righting itself. GM needs to fix the problem itself, not expect the problem to go away. The competition is simply too good to warrant buying an inferior (and often butt ugly) GM product. It needs to hire designers who build products that excite people. It needs to hire decision makers who are not just businessmen, but car guys who know WTF people want. GM needs to lead rather than play catch-up to the Germans, Japanese and now Daimler-Chrysler. And it can start this move with BETTER DESIGNS.
UAW President Ron Gettelfinger and Vice President Richard Shoemaker, who directs the UAW General Motors Department, issued this statement on today's announcement by General Motors:
"Today's action by General Motors is not only extremely disappointing, unfair and unfortunate, it is devastating to many thousands of workers, their families and their communities. While GM's continuing decline in market share is not the fault of workers or our communities, it is these groups that will suffer because of the actions announced today. For the workers, their families and the thousands of other people who work in the small businesses that supply these facilities, hope is diminished, the future is unclear and communities are less stable.
"The UAW-represented workers impacted by today's action are protected by our job security program as well as the other provisions and protections of the UAW-GM National Agreement. The UAW will do everything in its power to enforce those programs and protect the interests of the workers impacted by today's action.
"We have said consistently that General Motors cannot shrink itself to prosperity. In fact, shrinking General Motors only exacerbates its problems.
"Workers and their unions have worked hard to improve product quality and productivity at GM facilities in the United States and Canada, and these efforts have produced strong gains in both these critical areas, as reported in recent studies by J.D. Power & Associates and the Harbour Report.
"The actions covered by today's announcement will be the subject of ongoing discussions and the 2007 negotiations between the UAW and General Motors. Today's announcement clearly makes those negotiations much more difficult.
"GM's return to prosperity depends on it offering products that consumers find attractive, exciting and want to buy. Only then will GM's market share stabilize and grow, only then will revenues increase and only then will General Motors return to prosperity. Being successful in this regard is the exclusive responsibility of management: Workers have no control over GM's capital investment, product development, design, marketing and advertising decisions. But, unfortunately, it is workers, their families and our communities that are being forced to suffer because of the failures of others."
"Today's action by General Motors is not only extremely disappointing, unfair and unfortunate, it is devastating to many thousands of workers, their families and their communities. While GM's continuing decline in market share is not the fault of workers or our communities, it is these groups that will suffer because of the actions announced today. For the workers, their families and the thousands of other people who work in the small businesses that supply these facilities, hope is diminished, the future is unclear and communities are less stable.
"The UAW-represented workers impacted by today's action are protected by our job security program as well as the other provisions and protections of the UAW-GM National Agreement. The UAW will do everything in its power to enforce those programs and protect the interests of the workers impacted by today's action.
"We have said consistently that General Motors cannot shrink itself to prosperity. In fact, shrinking General Motors only exacerbates its problems.
"Workers and their unions have worked hard to improve product quality and productivity at GM facilities in the United States and Canada, and these efforts have produced strong gains in both these critical areas, as reported in recent studies by J.D. Power & Associates and the Harbour Report.
"The actions covered by today's announcement will be the subject of ongoing discussions and the 2007 negotiations between the UAW and General Motors. Today's announcement clearly makes those negotiations much more difficult.
"GM's return to prosperity depends on it offering products that consumers find attractive, exciting and want to buy. Only then will GM's market share stabilize and grow, only then will revenues increase and only then will General Motors return to prosperity. Being successful in this regard is the exclusive responsibility of management: Workers have no control over GM's capital investment, product development, design, marketing and advertising decisions. But, unfortunately, it is workers, their families and our communities that are being forced to suffer because of the failures of others."
Whatever. I agree with the highlighted statement but that's it. GM has in fact relied too much on brand loyalty to sell cars. The only people who will take a POS Buick over a superior Lexus are folks who actually find the shape of a jelly bean pleasing, people who were suckered in by a large discount of some kind, or let's face it, n00b brand loyalists.
However... HOWEVER, the UAW drove GM toward this move with it's rediculous demands and constraints it placed on GM. For them to try to make it look like they are suffering and that this is all GMs fault is pure bullshit. The fact of the matter is that NO ONE in the Union wants to take a pay cut to try to help GM so you know what, FORGET THEM. The UAW are losing support amongst the American people IMO. If you look at the responses on tne net and the attitude toward the UAW, how many people are saying "f**k the Union?" The UAW has done nothing to help, and now they're going to pay for it.
However... HOWEVER, to be fair I will also say this... F**K GM. I'm sorry but there is simply no other way to put it. Those idiots at the top also have no right to simply blame the UAW. Yes I believe it's true that if the purse strings weren't so tight, and the UAW wasn't so frickin greedy, GM would have more money for R&D and could build a superior product... COULD build a superior product. I seriously doubt they actually would.
GM screwed itself 10 years ago when management didn't wake up and realize that the Japanese were kicking their ***. Rather than commit to building better products, they stuck to building the same old shoddy *** ****. They kept the venerable yet age old 3800 pushrod V6 around without improving it or refining it thinking that brand loyalty would keep GM at number one. Yah, well now you're fucked because YOU THOUGHT WRONG. How many years did GM have to get its Holden and Opel/Vauxhall lineups into the US market? For quite a while people have been saying that GM built its best products outside the US market, but rather than spend money on finding ways to either import or build its best products here in the US, they cut corners and sell us the same FWD shitbox powered by the same piece of **** pushrod V6 for years. And when GM begins to realize that brand loyalty no longer means as much as they had thought, they go and discount their cars??? WTF?
In 4 or 5 years when these people come in to trade in their vehicles, does GM actually expect them to pay MSRP or did anyone stop to think that these folk might actually be expecting another deal. DUMBASSES. GM needs to stop cutting corners and built products people WANT. Look at how many people chose to buy a slow *** 2.7L powered Chrysler 300 because they WANTED something that looked good when they could have bought an Accord that would have better suited their needs.
I blame the idiots who thought that assimilating other manufacturers a la Fiat and Subaru was the solution. That being able to buy everyone out and potentially hold a monopoly on the automotive industry allowing them to build nothing but crap shitboxes was the solution. I mean that just proves how much GM doesn't give a rip about building great products. It also demonstrates that GM doesn't care about its customers but rather relies on their stupidity. Their very idea of success was being able to force people to buy a POS simply because they would be this great empire that could still turn a profit from a cheap disposable product. And then someone thought that they could sell even more of these half-hearted products by slapping different headlights and grilles onto one car, and selling them all under different makes. Who would have thought 35 years ago that the Malibu, a nameplate which was once synonymous with the moniker Chevelle which packed GMs awesome 454 LS-6 under its cowl induction hood would share a platform with a FWD Saab Sport Wagon? "Not I" said the cat. "Not I" said the dog. "Not I" said the former GM fanboy who once bought only GM cars because it was the "right thing to do" but has now realized what an idiot he was and that the Japanese offer superior products for less money.
I also blame GMs dumbass designers and the people who approved their current slew of butt ugly products as much as I blame the UAW for being the greedy mothereffers that they are. GM thinks it can give us products that look like crap and still be able to sell these cars at MSRP. What GM brass doesn't realize is that people will pay extra for something they want, they will NOT pay extra to cover the UAWs rediculous wages. This is something the UAW also needs to wake up and realize.
I also blame the morons who thought up GMs latest bonehead move. Cancelling Zeta in the US to push GMT900 up by one year. ONE YEAR. OMFG. How many people were looking forward to Zeta? EVERYONE. Everyone was praising it and cheering GM for finally taking its products in a direction people actually wanted. But like any good thing at GM, we should have figured it wouldn't last. Instead GM goes and pushes up its heavy trucks and SUVs because they have "higher profit margins which will provide us with more money for R&D toward our passenger cars." So what, they give us yet another slew of half-hearted passenger cars for another 5 years and lose even more customers. What GM failed to realize was that GMT900 provides them with products that have "higher profit margins PROVIDED THEY SELL." I can tell you that with gas prices the way they are now, and with people moving to car based crossovers, I doubt the GMT900 SUVs will be the hit GM hopes they'll be. Trucks will always sell, but the SUVs are half of the project, and if they don't move off of the lots, GM loses out yet again.
GM is messed up, VERY messed up. And for a long time they tried to deny this and project the idea that "everything will right itself, and all will be ok." Yah well the time for everything to right itself is now and you know what, **** ain't righting itself. GM needs to fix the problem itself, not expect the problem to go away. The competition is simply too good to warrant buying an inferior (and often butt ugly) GM product. It needs to hire designers who build products that excite people. It needs to hire decision makers who are not just businessmen, but car guys who know WTF people want. GM needs to lead rather than play catch-up to the Germans, Japanese and now Daimler-Chrysler. And it can start this move with BETTER DESIGNS.
Last edited by bruddah_man_matt; 11-24-2005 at 01:08 PM.
11-23-2005, 10:20 AM
#4
Very good post 
Even the solstice, which I thought would be a GREAT halo car and mark the begining of the turn around at GM seems somewhat cobbled together. Quality is lower than the grand prix, and the GTO from impressions of looking at one for a while at the local dealer. WTF? Yes those cars cost more money than the solstice, but even the new miata is BETTER PUT TOGETHER feeling, and it is deffinatly in the same price category. (though its not nearly as good looking as the solstice)
GM needs to do some HEAVY laying off of white collar management. The thing is, those people are the ones that make the decisions and NOONE is going to decide to lay themselves off.
Even the solstice, which I thought would be a GREAT halo car and mark the begining of the turn around at GM seems somewhat cobbled together. Quality is lower than the grand prix, and the GTO from impressions of looking at one for a while at the local dealer. WTF? Yes those cars cost more money than the solstice, but even the new miata is BETTER PUT TOGETHER feeling, and it is deffinatly in the same price category. (though its not nearly as good looking as the solstice)
GM needs to do some HEAVY laying off of white collar management. The thing is, those people are the ones that make the decisions and NOONE is going to decide to lay themselves off.
11-23-2005, 12:32 PM
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very well put guys, i hate to say it but they have dug themselves into a huge hole, and only have shovels to get themselves out at this point. i am a perfect example, i just sold my SS for a toyota tacoma. nothing against the SS, loved it to death and miss it everyday. but i could have went w/ a underpowered and crappy interior colorado or canyon for more money than the tacoma, but i am not so blind as to just buy a chevy b/c i have had a few. they are losing more and more customers each day they come out with more crap.
on a side note, went to the international auto show in charlotte last week. looked at, say in the Z06
saw the saturn sky, and solstice (had big crowds around each) and they looked very nice. hopefully they can see this, and start realizing people want well designed cars w/ nice interiors, not square, un-ergonomic crap made from plastic. they sky was pimp as hell, the wife wants one, we'll see about it when they put the LS7 in it 
on a side note, went to the international auto show in charlotte last week. looked at, say in the Z06
saw the saturn sky, and solstice (had big crowds around each) and they looked very nice. hopefully they can see this, and start realizing people want well designed cars w/ nice interiors, not square, un-ergonomic crap made from plastic. they sky was pimp as hell, the wife wants one, we'll see about it when they put the LS7 in it
11-23-2005, 01:04 PM
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bruddah_man_matt: 
Very well said, you covered all of the major points. And your right, it looks pretty bleak right now... If I were looking to buy a full size pick-up I would buy GM. Or if I was in the market for a $50k Sports car, I would buy a Vette. But besides those two products, GM pretty much sells nothing in any class or market, that someone else doesn't already make better for the same or less money.
Very well said, you covered all of the major points. And your right, it looks pretty bleak right now... If I were looking to buy a full size pick-up I would buy GM. Or if I was in the market for a $50k Sports car, I would buy a Vette. But besides those two products, GM pretty much sells nothing in any class or market, that someone else doesn't already make better for the same or less money.
11-23-2005, 01:26 PM
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So in the long run what does the UAW buy you as an employee....not much. They're powerless to stop the cut backs. It's just a damn shame the board didn't clean house ages ago and rid GM of the executives that made GM a joke of a auto manufacturer.
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11-23-2005, 03:29 PM
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As a 10 yr. veteran 
of working for Honda dealers and as a current owner of GM products I have to say that my GTO is probably superior to the quality of most of our products we sell. I actually work the parts counter for service so I see most of the warranty issues that come along. My GTO just simply shows that if GM would invest a little more and use its resources more profficiently across the product line, they could easily compete or be better. Honestly, I think the quality of their products has gotten MUCH better while the level has actually dropped a little here at Honda. I think GM has as much or more work to do on the drawing board as they do in the quality department. I think the initial look of the GMT900 shows the level of change they have made. I sat in a cobalt SS the other day and it was MUCH MUCH better than the cavy's. The fit and finish, quality of materials and even the sound of the door closing was simply night and day. Again, I think they are headed down the right path, they just need to get some more overall interesting product in the works and they needed it 10 years ago.
of working for Honda dealers and as a current owner of GM products I have to say that my GTO is probably superior to the quality of most of our products we sell. I actually work the parts counter for service so I see most of the warranty issues that come along. My GTO just simply shows that if GM would invest a little more and use its resources more profficiently across the product line, they could easily compete or be better. Honestly, I think the quality of their products has gotten MUCH better while the level has actually dropped a little here at Honda. I think GM has as much or more work to do on the drawing board as they do in the quality department. I think the initial look of the GMT900 shows the level of change they have made. I sat in a cobalt SS the other day and it was MUCH MUCH better than the cavy's. The fit and finish, quality of materials and even the sound of the door closing was simply night and day. Again, I think they are headed down the right path, they just need to get some more overall interesting product in the works and they needed it 10 years ago.
11-24-2005, 01:21 PM
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Time will tell what happens. I hope GM brass pulls their heads out of their asses sometime soon. A few years ago I would have said that GM also needed to fire most of its advertising division, however they have had some cool ads here and there in recent years. It's just that when lame *** conservative parents who can't raise their children propery complain about these ads, GM folds quicker than Superman on laundry day and pulls the ads from TV. Remember the cool "Jumpin Jack Flash" Corvette spot that Guy Ritchie directed? I believe groups also complained about the "holy s**t" SSR ad that featured a bunch of kids with soap in their mouths for using the phrase upon seeing the SSR. GMs biggest bonehead move in advertising however was probably "American Revolution" was was a pretty dumbass idea and a lame way of GM trying to hide the age old "buy American because it's the right thing to do" slogan. I will give GM props for upping the quality of their advertisments in recent years though.
11-28-2005, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bruddah_man_matt
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...uto-389400.htm
Whatever. I agree with the highlighted statement but that's it. GM has in fact relied too much on brand loyalty to sell cars. The only people who will take a POS Buick over a superior Lexus are folks who actually find the shape of a jelly bean pleasing, people who were suckered in by a large discount of some kind, or let's face it, n00b brand loyalists.
However... HOWEVER, the UAW drove GM toward this move with it's rediculous demands and constraints it placed on GM. For them to try to make it look like they are suffering and that this is all GMs fault is pure bullshit. The fact of the matter is that NO ONE in the Union wants to take a pay cut to try to help GM so you know what, FORGET THEM. The UAW are losing support amongst the American people IMO. If you look at the responses on tne net and the attitude toward the UAW, how many people are saying "f**k the Union?" The UAW has done nothing to help, and now they're going to pay for it.
However... HOWEVER, to be fair I will also say this... F**K GM. I'm sorry but there is simply no other way to put it. Those idiots at the top also have no right to simply blame the UAW. Yes I believe it's true that if the purse strings weren't so tight, and the UAW wasn't so frickin greedy, GM would have more money for R&D and could build a superior product... COULD build a superior product. I seriously doubt they actually would.
GM screwed itself 10 years ago when management didn't wake up and realize that the Japanese were kicking their ***. Rather than commit to building better products, they stuck to building the same old shoddy *** ****. They kept the venerable yet age old 3800 pushrod V6 around without improving it or refining it thinking that brand loyalty would keep GM at number one. Yah, well now you're fucked because YOU THOUGHT WRONG. How many years did GM have to get its Holden and Opel/Vauxhall lineups into the US market? For quite a while people have been saying that GM built its best products outside the US market, but rather than spend money on finding ways to either import or build its best products here in the US, they cut corners and sell us the same FWD shitbox powered by the same piece of **** pushrod V6 for years. And when GM begins to realize that brand loyalty no longer means as much as they had thought, they go and discount their cars??? WTF?
In 4 or 5 years when these people come in to trade in their vehicles, does GM actually expect them to pay MSRP or did anyone stop to think that these folk might actually be expecting another deal. DUMBASSES. GM needs to stop cutting corners and built products people WANT. Look at how many people chose to buy a slow *** 2.7L powered Chrysler 300 because they WANTED something that looked good when they could have bought an Accord that would have better suited their needs.
I blame the idiots who thought that assimilating other manufacturers a la Fiat and Subaru was the solution. That being able to buy everyone out and potentially hold a monopoly on the automotive industry allowing them to build nothing but crap shitboxes was the solution. I mean that just proves how much GM doesn't give a rip about building great products. It also demonstrates that GM doesn't care about its customers but rather relies on their stupidity. Their very idea of success was being able to force people to buy a POS simply because they would be this great empire that could still turn a profit from a cheap disposable product. And then someone thought that they could sell even more of these half-hearted products by slapping different headlights and grilles onto one car, and selling them all under different makes. Who would have thought 35 years ago that the Malibu, a nameplate which was once synonymous with the moniker Chevelle which packed GMs awesome 454 LS-6 under its cowl induction hood would share a platform with a FWD Saab Sport Wagon? "Not I" said the cat. "Not I" said the dog. "Not I" said the former GM fanboy who once bought only GM cars because it was the "right thing to do" but has now realized what an idiot he was and that the Japanese offer superior products for less money.
I also blame GMs dumbass designers and the people who approved their current slew of butt ugly products as much as I blame the UAW for being the greedy mothereffers that they are. GM thinks it can give us products that look like crap and still be able to sell these cars at MSRP. What GM brass doesn't realize is that people will pay extra for something they want, they will NOT pay extra to cover the UAWs rediculous wages. This is something the UAW also needs to wake up and realize.
I also blame the morons who thought up GMs latest bonehead move. Cancelling Zeta in the US to push GMT900 up by one year. ONE YEAR. OMFG. How many people were looking forward to Zeta? EVERYONE. Everyone was praising it and cheering GM for finally taking its products in a direction people actually wanted. But like any good thing at GM, we should have figured it wouldn't last. Instead GM goes and pushes up its heavy trucks and SUVs because they have "higher profit margins which will provide us with more money for R&D toward our passenger cars." So what, they give us yet another slew of half-hearted passenger cars for another 5 years and lose even more customers. What GM failed to realize was that GMT900 provides them with products that have "higher profit margins PROVIDED THEY SELL." I can tell you that with gas prices the way they are now, and with people moving to car based crossovers, I doubt the GMT900 SUVs will be the hit GM hopes they'll be. Trucks will always sell, but the SUVs are half of the project, and if they don't move off of the lots, GM loses out yet again.
GM is messed up, VERY messed up. And for a long time they tried to deny this and project the idea that "everything will right itself, and all will be ok." Yah well the time for everything to right itself is now and you know what, **** ain't righting itself. GM needs to fix the problem itself, not expect the problem to go away. The competition is simply too good to warrant buying an inferior (and often butt ugly) GM product. It needs to hire designers who build products that excite people. It needs to hire decision makers who are not just businessmen, but car guys who know WTF people want. GM needs to lead rather than play catch-up to the Germans, Japanese and now Daimler-Chrysler. And it can start this move with BETTER DESIGNS.
Whatever. I agree with the highlighted statement but that's it. GM has in fact relied too much on brand loyalty to sell cars. The only people who will take a POS Buick over a superior Lexus are folks who actually find the shape of a jelly bean pleasing, people who were suckered in by a large discount of some kind, or let's face it, n00b brand loyalists.
However... HOWEVER, the UAW drove GM toward this move with it's rediculous demands and constraints it placed on GM. For them to try to make it look like they are suffering and that this is all GMs fault is pure bullshit. The fact of the matter is that NO ONE in the Union wants to take a pay cut to try to help GM so you know what, FORGET THEM. The UAW are losing support amongst the American people IMO. If you look at the responses on tne net and the attitude toward the UAW, how many people are saying "f**k the Union?" The UAW has done nothing to help, and now they're going to pay for it.
However... HOWEVER, to be fair I will also say this... F**K GM. I'm sorry but there is simply no other way to put it. Those idiots at the top also have no right to simply blame the UAW. Yes I believe it's true that if the purse strings weren't so tight, and the UAW wasn't so frickin greedy, GM would have more money for R&D and could build a superior product... COULD build a superior product. I seriously doubt they actually would.
GM screwed itself 10 years ago when management didn't wake up and realize that the Japanese were kicking their ***. Rather than commit to building better products, they stuck to building the same old shoddy *** ****. They kept the venerable yet age old 3800 pushrod V6 around without improving it or refining it thinking that brand loyalty would keep GM at number one. Yah, well now you're fucked because YOU THOUGHT WRONG. How many years did GM have to get its Holden and Opel/Vauxhall lineups into the US market? For quite a while people have been saying that GM built its best products outside the US market, but rather than spend money on finding ways to either import or build its best products here in the US, they cut corners and sell us the same FWD shitbox powered by the same piece of **** pushrod V6 for years. And when GM begins to realize that brand loyalty no longer means as much as they had thought, they go and discount their cars??? WTF?
In 4 or 5 years when these people come in to trade in their vehicles, does GM actually expect them to pay MSRP or did anyone stop to think that these folk might actually be expecting another deal. DUMBASSES. GM needs to stop cutting corners and built products people WANT. Look at how many people chose to buy a slow *** 2.7L powered Chrysler 300 because they WANTED something that looked good when they could have bought an Accord that would have better suited their needs.
I blame the idiots who thought that assimilating other manufacturers a la Fiat and Subaru was the solution. That being able to buy everyone out and potentially hold a monopoly on the automotive industry allowing them to build nothing but crap shitboxes was the solution. I mean that just proves how much GM doesn't give a rip about building great products. It also demonstrates that GM doesn't care about its customers but rather relies on their stupidity. Their very idea of success was being able to force people to buy a POS simply because they would be this great empire that could still turn a profit from a cheap disposable product. And then someone thought that they could sell even more of these half-hearted products by slapping different headlights and grilles onto one car, and selling them all under different makes. Who would have thought 35 years ago that the Malibu, a nameplate which was once synonymous with the moniker Chevelle which packed GMs awesome 454 LS-6 under its cowl induction hood would share a platform with a FWD Saab Sport Wagon? "Not I" said the cat. "Not I" said the dog. "Not I" said the former GM fanboy who once bought only GM cars because it was the "right thing to do" but has now realized what an idiot he was and that the Japanese offer superior products for less money.
I also blame GMs dumbass designers and the people who approved their current slew of butt ugly products as much as I blame the UAW for being the greedy mothereffers that they are. GM thinks it can give us products that look like crap and still be able to sell these cars at MSRP. What GM brass doesn't realize is that people will pay extra for something they want, they will NOT pay extra to cover the UAWs rediculous wages. This is something the UAW also needs to wake up and realize.
I also blame the morons who thought up GMs latest bonehead move. Cancelling Zeta in the US to push GMT900 up by one year. ONE YEAR. OMFG. How many people were looking forward to Zeta? EVERYONE. Everyone was praising it and cheering GM for finally taking its products in a direction people actually wanted. But like any good thing at GM, we should have figured it wouldn't last. Instead GM goes and pushes up its heavy trucks and SUVs because they have "higher profit margins which will provide us with more money for R&D toward our passenger cars." So what, they give us yet another slew of half-hearted passenger cars for another 5 years and lose even more customers. What GM failed to realize was that GMT900 provides them with products that have "higher profit margins PROVIDED THEY SELL." I can tell you that with gas prices the way they are now, and with people moving to car based crossovers, I doubt the GMT900 SUVs will be the hit GM hopes they'll be. Trucks will always sell, but the SUVs are half of the project, and if they don't move off of the lots, GM loses out yet again.
GM is messed up, VERY messed up. And for a long time they tried to deny this and project the idea that "everything will right itself, and all will be ok." Yah well the time for everything to right itself is now and you know what, **** ain't righting itself. GM needs to fix the problem itself, not expect the problem to go away. The competition is simply too good to warrant buying an inferior (and often butt ugly) GM product. It needs to hire designers who build products that excite people. It needs to hire decision makers who are not just businessmen, but car guys who know WTF people want. GM needs to lead rather than play catch-up to the Germans, Japanese and now Daimler-Chrysler. And it can start this move with BETTER DESIGNS.
11-28-2005, 05:37 PM
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I agree with most of your points, but GM build quality is ever increasing, and a few of the examples in this thread are ill-chosen. Buick, for example. Have you checked them out recently? The LaCrosse is one of the best values in the whole industry right now. Their build quality is excellent, and the smoothness of the ride possibly exceeds Cadillac. I personally don't get excited about it's looks, but it is a really nice car. The Lucerne is essentially a DTS for 10k less (with the same engine - 4.6L Northstar).
crash - The Solstice has received praise from just about everyone in the industry. The few complaints I've heard - no cup holders (they actually didn't realize there are 3 of them, yes 3 cup holders in a 2 seater), and no cargo space/back seat. Well it's a roadster. It's initial build quality is very high rated, though of course, there is no way to know much long term as of yet.
There are examples worthy of citing for why GM is in a slump, just not these or the GTO. Don't pick on their successes when they have plenty of failures to choose from.
crash - The Solstice has received praise from just about everyone in the industry. The few complaints I've heard - no cup holders (they actually didn't realize there are 3 of them, yes 3 cup holders in a 2 seater), and no cargo space/back seat. Well it's a roadster. It's initial build quality is very high rated, though of course, there is no way to know much long term as of yet.
There are examples worthy of citing for why GM is in a slump, just not these or the GTO. Don't pick on their successes when they have plenty of failures to choose from.
11-28-2005, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Honboy1
Some people have alot of time on their hands!!!
11-29-2005, 12:40 AM
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GM and the UAW just passed a new agreement where the union members will have higher co-pay on insurance/perscriptions, wage freeze until at least 2007, retirees will have to pay $750 per year for insurance and most of them make less than $20k before taxes. So the UAW is tring to help GM but it seems like those points never make it into these posts for some reason.
A little history lesson for some...........
Many people believe we in the union are overpaid and do nothing to earn our wage and benifits! Well- I disagree with these statements. The facts are in 1948, since the COLA was established today's wages are based on a wage amount(per hour) negotiated by the corporation and the International Ubion, COLA is added to the base wage in 4 quartely installments yearly. At the end of a negotiated contact(3-4 years) the amount of COLA received in the previous contract is rolled into the base wage to keep in step with inflation rates-the economy!
For the record a production worker makes as of 9-19-2005 $25.89. If you take away from this wage the COLA accumulated from 1948 to today ($15.71) our negotiated wage is less that COLA is $10.18
Tom
A little history lesson for some...........
Many people believe we in the union are overpaid and do nothing to earn our wage and benifits! Well- I disagree with these statements. The facts are in 1948, since the COLA was established today's wages are based on a wage amount(per hour) negotiated by the corporation and the International Ubion, COLA is added to the base wage in 4 quartely installments yearly. At the end of a negotiated contact(3-4 years) the amount of COLA received in the previous contract is rolled into the base wage to keep in step with inflation rates-the economy!
For the record a production worker makes as of 9-19-2005 $25.89. If you take away from this wage the COLA accumulated from 1948 to today ($15.71) our negotiated wage is less that COLA is $10.18
Tom
Originally Posted by bruddah_man_matt
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...uto-389400.htm
Whatever. I agree with the highlighted statement but that's it. GM has in fact relied too much on brand loyalty to sell cars. The only people who will take a POS Buick over a superior Lexus are folks who actually find the shape of a jelly bean pleasing, people who were suckered in by a large discount of some kind, or let's face it, n00b brand loyalists.
However... HOWEVER, the UAW drove GM toward this move with it's rediculous demands and constraints it placed on GM. For them to try to make it look like they are suffering and that this is all GMs fault is pure bullshit. The fact of the matter is that NO ONE in the Union wants to take a pay cut to try to help GM so you know what, FORGET THEM. The UAW are losing support amongst the American people IMO. If you look at the responses on tne net and the attitude toward the UAW, how many people are saying "f**k the Union?" The UAW has done nothing to help, and now they're going to pay for it.
However... HOWEVER, to be fair I will also say this... F**K GM. I'm sorry but there is simply no other way to put it. Those idiots at the top also have no right to simply blame the UAW. Yes I believe it's true that if the purse strings weren't so tight, and the UAW wasn't so frickin greedy, GM would have more money for R&D and could build a superior product... COULD build a superior product. I seriously doubt they actually would.
GM screwed itself 10 years ago when management didn't wake up and realize that the Japanese were kicking their ***. Rather than commit to building better products, they stuck to building the same old shoddy *** ****. They kept the venerable yet age old 3800 pushrod V6 around without improving it or refining it thinking that brand loyalty would keep GM at number one. Yah, well now you're fucked because YOU THOUGHT WRONG. How many years did GM have to get its Holden and Opel/Vauxhall lineups into the US market? For quite a while people have been saying that GM built its best products outside the US market, but rather than spend money on finding ways to either import or build its best products here in the US, they cut corners and sell us the same FWD shitbox powered by the same piece of **** pushrod V6 for years. And when GM begins to realize that brand loyalty no longer means as much as they had thought, they go and discount their cars??? WTF?
In 4 or 5 years when these people come in to trade in their vehicles, does GM actually expect them to pay MSRP or did anyone stop to think that these folk might actually be expecting another deal. DUMBASSES. GM needs to stop cutting corners and built products people WANT. Look at how many people chose to buy a slow *** 2.7L powered Chrysler 300 because they WANTED something that looked good when they could have bought an Accord that would have better suited their needs.
I blame the idiots who thought that assimilating other manufacturers a la Fiat and Subaru was the solution. That being able to buy everyone out and potentially hold a monopoly on the automotive industry allowing them to build nothing but crap shitboxes was the solution. I mean that just proves how much GM doesn't give a rip about building great products. It also demonstrates that GM doesn't care about its customers but rather relies on their stupidity. Their very idea of success was being able to force people to buy a POS simply because they would be this great empire that could still turn a profit from a cheap disposable product. And then someone thought that they could sell even more of these half-hearted products by slapping different headlights and grilles onto one car, and selling them all under different makes. Who would have thought 35 years ago that the Malibu, a nameplate which was once synonymous with the moniker Chevelle which packed GMs awesome 454 LS-6 under its cowl induction hood would share a platform with a FWD Saab Sport Wagon? "Not I" said the cat. "Not I" said the dog. "Not I" said the former GM fanboy who once bought only GM cars because it was the "right thing to do" but has now realized what an idiot he was and that the Japanese offer superior products for less money.
I also blame GMs dumbass designers and the people who approved their current slew of butt ugly products as much as I blame the UAW for being the greedy mothereffers that they are. GM thinks it can give us products that look like crap and still be able to sell these cars at MSRP. What GM brass doesn't realize is that people will pay extra for something they want, they will NOT pay extra to cover the UAWs rediculous wages. This is something the UAW also needs to wake up and realize.
I also blame the morons who thought up GMs latest bonehead move. Cancelling Zeta in the US to push GMT900 up by one year. ONE YEAR. OMFG. How many people were looking forward to Zeta? EVERYONE. Everyone was praising it and cheering GM for finally taking its products in a direction people actually wanted. But like any good thing at GM, we should have figured it wouldn't last. Instead GM goes and pushes up its heavy trucks and SUVs because they have "higher profit margins which will provide us with more money for R&D toward our passenger cars." So what, they give us yet another slew of half-hearted passenger cars for another 5 years and lose even more customers. What GM failed to realize was that GMT900 provides them with products that have "higher profit margins PROVIDED THEY SELL." I can tell you that with gas prices the way they are now, and with people moving to car based crossovers, I doubt the GMT900 SUVs will be the hit GM hopes they'll be. Trucks will always sell, but the SUVs are half of the project, and if they don't move off of the lots, GM loses out yet again.
GM is messed up, VERY messed up. And for a long time they tried to deny this and project the idea that "everything will right itself, and all will be ok." Yah well the time for everything to right itself is now and you know what, **** ain't righting itself. GM needs to fix the problem itself, not expect the problem to go away. The competition is simply too good to warrant buying an inferior (and often butt ugly) GM product. It needs to hire designers who build products that excite people. It needs to hire decision makers who are not just businessmen, but car guys who know WTF people want. GM needs to lead rather than play catch-up to the Germans, Japanese and now Daimler-Chrysler. And it can start this move with BETTER DESIGNS.
Whatever. I agree with the highlighted statement but that's it. GM has in fact relied too much on brand loyalty to sell cars. The only people who will take a POS Buick over a superior Lexus are folks who actually find the shape of a jelly bean pleasing, people who were suckered in by a large discount of some kind, or let's face it, n00b brand loyalists.
However... HOWEVER, the UAW drove GM toward this move with it's rediculous demands and constraints it placed on GM. For them to try to make it look like they are suffering and that this is all GMs fault is pure bullshit. The fact of the matter is that NO ONE in the Union wants to take a pay cut to try to help GM so you know what, FORGET THEM. The UAW are losing support amongst the American people IMO. If you look at the responses on tne net and the attitude toward the UAW, how many people are saying "f**k the Union?" The UAW has done nothing to help, and now they're going to pay for it.
However... HOWEVER, to be fair I will also say this... F**K GM. I'm sorry but there is simply no other way to put it. Those idiots at the top also have no right to simply blame the UAW. Yes I believe it's true that if the purse strings weren't so tight, and the UAW wasn't so frickin greedy, GM would have more money for R&D and could build a superior product... COULD build a superior product. I seriously doubt they actually would.
GM screwed itself 10 years ago when management didn't wake up and realize that the Japanese were kicking their ***. Rather than commit to building better products, they stuck to building the same old shoddy *** ****. They kept the venerable yet age old 3800 pushrod V6 around without improving it or refining it thinking that brand loyalty would keep GM at number one. Yah, well now you're fucked because YOU THOUGHT WRONG. How many years did GM have to get its Holden and Opel/Vauxhall lineups into the US market? For quite a while people have been saying that GM built its best products outside the US market, but rather than spend money on finding ways to either import or build its best products here in the US, they cut corners and sell us the same FWD shitbox powered by the same piece of **** pushrod V6 for years. And when GM begins to realize that brand loyalty no longer means as much as they had thought, they go and discount their cars??? WTF?
In 4 or 5 years when these people come in to trade in their vehicles, does GM actually expect them to pay MSRP or did anyone stop to think that these folk might actually be expecting another deal. DUMBASSES. GM needs to stop cutting corners and built products people WANT. Look at how many people chose to buy a slow *** 2.7L powered Chrysler 300 because they WANTED something that looked good when they could have bought an Accord that would have better suited their needs.
I blame the idiots who thought that assimilating other manufacturers a la Fiat and Subaru was the solution. That being able to buy everyone out and potentially hold a monopoly on the automotive industry allowing them to build nothing but crap shitboxes was the solution. I mean that just proves how much GM doesn't give a rip about building great products. It also demonstrates that GM doesn't care about its customers but rather relies on their stupidity. Their very idea of success was being able to force people to buy a POS simply because they would be this great empire that could still turn a profit from a cheap disposable product. And then someone thought that they could sell even more of these half-hearted products by slapping different headlights and grilles onto one car, and selling them all under different makes. Who would have thought 35 years ago that the Malibu, a nameplate which was once synonymous with the moniker Chevelle which packed GMs awesome 454 LS-6 under its cowl induction hood would share a platform with a FWD Saab Sport Wagon? "Not I" said the cat. "Not I" said the dog. "Not I" said the former GM fanboy who once bought only GM cars because it was the "right thing to do" but has now realized what an idiot he was and that the Japanese offer superior products for less money.
I also blame GMs dumbass designers and the people who approved their current slew of butt ugly products as much as I blame the UAW for being the greedy mothereffers that they are. GM thinks it can give us products that look like crap and still be able to sell these cars at MSRP. What GM brass doesn't realize is that people will pay extra for something they want, they will NOT pay extra to cover the UAWs rediculous wages. This is something the UAW also needs to wake up and realize.
I also blame the morons who thought up GMs latest bonehead move. Cancelling Zeta in the US to push GMT900 up by one year. ONE YEAR. OMFG. How many people were looking forward to Zeta? EVERYONE. Everyone was praising it and cheering GM for finally taking its products in a direction people actually wanted. But like any good thing at GM, we should have figured it wouldn't last. Instead GM goes and pushes up its heavy trucks and SUVs because they have "higher profit margins which will provide us with more money for R&D toward our passenger cars." So what, they give us yet another slew of half-hearted passenger cars for another 5 years and lose even more customers. What GM failed to realize was that GMT900 provides them with products that have "higher profit margins PROVIDED THEY SELL." I can tell you that with gas prices the way they are now, and with people moving to car based crossovers, I doubt the GMT900 SUVs will be the hit GM hopes they'll be. Trucks will always sell, but the SUVs are half of the project, and if they don't move off of the lots, GM loses out yet again.
GM is messed up, VERY messed up. And for a long time they tried to deny this and project the idea that "everything will right itself, and all will be ok." Yah well the time for everything to right itself is now and you know what, **** ain't righting itself. GM needs to fix the problem itself, not expect the problem to go away. The competition is simply too good to warrant buying an inferior (and often butt ugly) GM product. It needs to hire designers who build products that excite people. It needs to hire decision makers who are not just businessmen, but car guys who know WTF people want. GM needs to lead rather than play catch-up to the Germans, Japanese and now Daimler-Chrysler. And it can start this move with BETTER DESIGNS.
11-29-2005, 01:10 AM
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Interesting post with an interesting point of view. My dad retired from GM after 30 years of service. He now drives a Dodge. What does that tell you? While GM quality maybe moving in the right direction, it just hasn't been there in the past 10 years (as far back as I can recall caring).
Most UAW employees aren't worth $26 / hr. Living in the Motor City and working in the service industry, I can tell you first hand that 90% of the UAW factory workers I interact with every day do NOT earn their wage.
You would be ******* amazed at how many of these cats drink beer and smoke weed during their breaks. I can tell you right now, the majority of our beer sales during lunch are from UAW employees. It's truly sad how counter-productive some of these people can be.
And what the hell is the point of a plant manager? He can't do **** but yell at people. Kinda like Mariucci (Lions head coach). He can try as much as he wants to discipline people, but he doesn't get the support from the upper ranks. My dad could tell you stories that would blow your mind.
One of the stories he told me that sticks in my mind is when a couple guys were getting high about 30 feet in the air at the Hamtramack plant he worked at. Apparantely a couple of guys decided it would be a good idea to climb a giant stack of assembled Cadillac doors and smoke a joint. After getting caught, they REFUSED to come down. The fire department had to come out with their ladders to get them down from there. The plant manager went ballistic and sent them home. THE NEXT DAY they were back at work because the Union Commitee man bitched up a storm and got them their job back. Do you believe that ****? And my dad could tell these stories all night long. And that was just one plant.
I'll be damned if the UAW isn't single handedly destroying the American auto industry, be it GM or otherwise.
Most UAW employees aren't worth $26 / hr. Living in the Motor City and working in the service industry, I can tell you first hand that 90% of the UAW factory workers I interact with every day do NOT earn their wage.
You would be ******* amazed at how many of these cats drink beer and smoke weed during their breaks. I can tell you right now, the majority of our beer sales during lunch are from UAW employees. It's truly sad how counter-productive some of these people can be.
And what the hell is the point of a plant manager? He can't do **** but yell at people. Kinda like Mariucci (Lions head coach). He can try as much as he wants to discipline people, but he doesn't get the support from the upper ranks. My dad could tell you stories that would blow your mind.
One of the stories he told me that sticks in my mind is when a couple guys were getting high about 30 feet in the air at the Hamtramack plant he worked at. Apparantely a couple of guys decided it would be a good idea to climb a giant stack of assembled Cadillac doors and smoke a joint. After getting caught, they REFUSED to come down. The fire department had to come out with their ladders to get them down from there. The plant manager went ballistic and sent them home. THE NEXT DAY they were back at work because the Union Commitee man bitched up a storm and got them their job back. Do you believe that ****? And my dad could tell these stories all night long. And that was just one plant.
I'll be damned if the UAW isn't single handedly destroying the American auto industry, be it GM or otherwise.
11-29-2005, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by nbm00ws6
GM and the UAW just passed a new agreement where the union members will have higher co-pay on insurance/perscriptions, wage freeze until at least 2007, retirees will have to pay $750 per year for insurance and most of them make less than $20k before taxes. So the UAW is tring to help GM but it seems like those points never make it into these posts for some reason.
A little history lesson for some...........
Many people believe we in the union are overpaid and do nothing to earn our wage and benifits! Well- I disagree with these statements. The facts are in 1948, since the COLA was established today's wages are based on a wage amount(per hour) negotiated by the corporation and the International Ubion, COLA is added to the base wage in 4 quartely installments yearly. At the end of a negotiated contact(3-4 years) the amount of COLA received in the previous contract is rolled into the base wage to keep in step with inflation rates-the economy!
For the record a production worker makes as of 9-19-2005 $25.89. If you take away from this wage the COLA accumulated from 1948 to today ($15.71) our negotiated wage is less that COLA is $10.18
Tom
A little history lesson for some...........
Many people believe we in the union are overpaid and do nothing to earn our wage and benifits! Well- I disagree with these statements. The facts are in 1948, since the COLA was established today's wages are based on a wage amount(per hour) negotiated by the corporation and the International Ubion, COLA is added to the base wage in 4 quartely installments yearly. At the end of a negotiated contact(3-4 years) the amount of COLA received in the previous contract is rolled into the base wage to keep in step with inflation rates-the economy!
For the record a production worker makes as of 9-19-2005 $25.89. If you take away from this wage the COLA accumulated from 1948 to today ($15.71) our negotiated wage is less that COLA is $10.18
Tom
11-29-2005, 04:41 AM
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Unskilled labor being paid $26.... Complaining that retirees have to pay $750 for insurance when "Most are making less than $20k before taxes" I assume that this $20k is pension money? Yeah you union guys must have a hard time making ends meet....
I'm going to remember these numbers when I'm looking for a new daily driver.... I'll prob buy used.... let someone else pay the UAW tax
I'm going to remember these numbers when I'm looking for a new daily driver.... I'll prob buy used.... let someone else pay the UAW tax
11-29-2005, 06:04 AM
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For every story your dad or who ever can tell you about a union worker I can tell you about a mgt. person who has a degree and couldn't run a kids lemonade stand but they have them running a whole plant. Another thing about those so called ways a committeeman gets their emps off trouble, if the emp. is guilty and mgt. does their job correctly, there isn't a damn thing the committeeman can do about it. But when mgt. doesn't do their job in presenting their case against the worker and the committeeman does his and the emp. gets off all you hear is the committeeman did this. No Mgt. did it by not doing their job correctly. Inside a plants walls is no different than being on the street, innocent until proven guilty.
Tom
Tom
Originally Posted by kpowr82
Interesting post with an interesting point of view. My dad retired from GM after 30 years of service. He now drives a Dodge. What does that tell you? While GM quality maybe moving in the right direction, it just hasn't been there in the past 10 years (as far back as I can recall caring).
Most UAW employees aren't worth $26 / hr. Living in the Motor City and working in the service industry, I can tell you first hand that 90% of the UAW factory workers I interact with every day do NOT earn their wage.
You would be ******* amazed at how many of these cats drink beer and smoke weed during their breaks. I can tell you right now, the majority of our beer sales during lunch are from UAW employees. It's truly sad how counter-productive some of these people can be.
And what the hell is the point of a plant manager? He can't do **** but yell at people. Kinda like Mariucci (Lions head coach). He can try as much as he wants to discipline people, but he doesn't get the support from the upper ranks. My dad could tell you stories that would blow your mind.
One of the stories he told me that sticks in my mind is when a couple guys were getting high about 30 feet in the air at the Hamtramack plant he worked at. Apparantely a couple of guys decided it would be a good idea to climb a giant stack of assembled Cadillac doors and smoke a joint. After getting caught, they REFUSED to come down. The fire department had to come out with their ladders to get them down from there. The plant manager went ballistic and sent them home. THE NEXT DAY they were back at work because the Union Commitee man bitched up a storm and got them their job back. Do you believe that ****? And my dad could tell these stories all night long. And that was just one plant.
I'll be damned if the UAW isn't single handedly destroying the American auto industry, be it GM or otherwise.
Most UAW employees aren't worth $26 / hr. Living in the Motor City and working in the service industry, I can tell you first hand that 90% of the UAW factory workers I interact with every day do NOT earn their wage.
You would be ******* amazed at how many of these cats drink beer and smoke weed during their breaks. I can tell you right now, the majority of our beer sales during lunch are from UAW employees. It's truly sad how counter-productive some of these people can be.
And what the hell is the point of a plant manager? He can't do **** but yell at people. Kinda like Mariucci (Lions head coach). He can try as much as he wants to discipline people, but he doesn't get the support from the upper ranks. My dad could tell you stories that would blow your mind.
One of the stories he told me that sticks in my mind is when a couple guys were getting high about 30 feet in the air at the Hamtramack plant he worked at. Apparantely a couple of guys decided it would be a good idea to climb a giant stack of assembled Cadillac doors and smoke a joint. After getting caught, they REFUSED to come down. The fire department had to come out with their ladders to get them down from there. The plant manager went ballistic and sent them home. THE NEXT DAY they were back at work because the Union Commitee man bitched up a storm and got them their job back. Do you believe that ****? And my dad could tell these stories all night long. And that was just one plant.
I'll be damned if the UAW isn't single handedly destroying the American auto industry, be it GM or otherwise.
11-29-2005, 06:14 AM
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So by what your saying, a farmer in this country should be making more than the unskilled union worker, more than the CEO's of these big companies, more than a engineering tech, more than a teacher, and more than the president of the US. because the farmer work rings around anybody else there is. Heck it sounds like your lucky, your mom paid for your college education. My wife's family was unable to help her with her college education, but she was able toget her's anyway and 10+ years later she is still paying on student loans.
Tom
Tom
Originally Posted by bruddah_man_matt
Assembly line peons have no right to make more money than my Mom who busted her *** as an English teacher to help put me through college. She and my Grandma started with nothing and had to work their asses off for over 25 years to establish my Grandmas cleaning business which finally after 15 years of hard work netted them contracts with Tiffany & Co. and Todds. When I see how hard my Mom had to work to get my Grandma's business off the ground in order to make the kind of money she's making today, it makes me pretty sick to see that a lowly Union assembly line worker can make more than she does at her teaching job by just putting the same damn bolt in the same damn place. To think that my Mom would have been able to help my Grandma establish her business much sooner by working on an assembly line instead of teaching is pretty rediculous. Granted, teachers in Hawaii don't get paid ****, but still. Unskilled workers do not deserve $26 an hour in my opinion. Not when I have friends who have just graduated from college and are making less than $20 an hour as an engineering tech. Their job at least requires some amount of skill. Exactly how qualified does one have to be to put this thing here and that thing there?
11-29-2005, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by nbm00ws6
if the emp. is guilty and mgt. does their job correctly, there isn't a damn thing the committeeman can do about it. But when mgt. doesn't do their job in presenting their case against the worker and the committeeman does his and the emp. gets off all you hear is the committeeman did this. No Mgt. did it by not doing their job correctly. Inside a plants walls is no different than being on the street, innocent until proven guilty.
Tom
Tom