4th Gen Rear Question
11-17-2014, 05:27 PM
#1
4th Gen Rear Question Hey Guys
I tried searching for this but was getting a lot of threads that were Close but no cigar, If I missed it, apologies in advance and feel free to just send me in that direction.
I just bought a 05 CTS-V with 55k Miles. I have seen a few people reference upgrading to 4th Gen Rears as they can hold more power. My end goal with the car is Heads and Cams and seems like it would be the most ideal setup, as opposed to dropping a heavy dollar with the oh so sexy Creative Steel setup.
My main questions are
1 - Is this a direct bolt on? or does this require fabrication/new axles/driveshaft
2 - If im not launching the car at the track, but getting busy on the street occasionally, where is my "safe" zone as far as power growth goes with this rear
3 - If I plan on upgrading axles, will standard First Gen Kits no longer apply because I have a different rear?
I tried searching for this but was getting a lot of threads that were Close but no cigar, If I missed it, apologies in advance and feel free to just send me in that direction.
I just bought a 05 CTS-V with 55k Miles. I have seen a few people reference upgrading to 4th Gen Rears as they can hold more power. My end goal with the car is Heads and Cams and seems like it would be the most ideal setup, as opposed to dropping a heavy dollar with the oh so sexy Creative Steel setup.
My main questions are
1 - Is this a direct bolt on? or does this require fabrication/new axles/driveshaft
2 - If im not launching the car at the track, but getting busy on the street occasionally, where is my "safe" zone as far as power growth goes with this rear
3 - If I plan on upgrading axles, will standard First Gen Kits no longer apply because I have a different rear?
11-17-2014, 06:15 PM
#3
The 4th gen diff is an OEM part that simply was made after they stopped production of the CTS-V. Just swap it out for your old one. Some people have still killed 4th gen diffs on the street, but definitely not as often. It will provide you with more peace of mind, but even so, if you are hopping badly, let off.
11-17-2014, 06:18 PM
#4
The 4th gen diff is an OEM part that simply was made after they stopped production of the CTS-V. Just swap it out for your old one. Some people have still killed 4th gen diffs on the street, but definitely not as often. It will provide you with more peace of mind, but even so, if you are hopping badly, let off.
I remember my friend had a V when they first came out and did the anti-wheel hop kit via Mallet and still had issues, but dunno the extent of what good ol' Chuck did to his car. It could have just been bushings as this was back in 2004 and nothing else was available yet
11-17-2014, 06:40 PM
#5
There's no end all be all solution for these rear ends, hah. Aftermarket motor mounts, trans mount, driveshaft bearing (thread on here by voodoochikin), diff bushing, and rear cradle bushings will help keep hop to a minimum. You could get upgraded axles but then you would have to worry about your CV joints. It's never ending. Just don't get that garbage BMR diff brace.
11-18-2014, 09:17 AM
#6
There's no end all be all solution for these rear ends, hah. Aftermarket motor mounts, trans mount, driveshaft bearing (thread on here by voodoochikin), diff bushing, and rear cradle bushings will help keep hop to a minimum. You could get upgraded axles but then you would have to worry about your CV joints. It's never ending. Just don't get that garbage BMR diff brace.
11-18-2014, 09:54 AM
#7
TECH Fanatic
I'm not sure mounts have any protective effect given that diff failure has more to do with general diff under design especially the case. Third and fourth gen diffs have had improvements made, but they're still not bulletproof.
After selling my KARS III kit (which was marginally effective), I bought cradle bushings (which help a little) then full axle assemblies to reduce/eliminate WH in order to protect my 3rd gen diff. Though I have zero WH now, it's not a 100% foolproof solution as another member here local to me recently lost his diff with basically the same setup. I'm not a fan of the BMR products.
Without a doubt, the best thing to do is get one of the aftermarket diffs. It's not a simple bolt-on, however.
After selling my KARS III kit (which was marginally effective), I bought cradle bushings (which help a little) then full axle assemblies to reduce/eliminate WH in order to protect my 3rd gen diff. Though I have zero WH now, it's not a 100% foolproof solution as another member here local to me recently lost his diff with basically the same setup. I'm not a fan of the BMR products.
Without a doubt, the best thing to do is get one of the aftermarket diffs. It's not a simple bolt-on, however.
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11-19-2014, 01:42 PM
#9
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As A Mallett owner I can tell you there is still no perfect solution. I still get wheel hop with the wrong tire/temp conditions. The downside of having no wheel hop is that you will wear/warp the diff over time as you put substantial levels of torque through it successfully.
Shocks, Bushings/mounts and axles will go a long way to prevent wheel hop that causes premature catastrophic failure.
If your car has bad gear whine you might want to consider getting yourself another housing from a non V or an SRX so that if it does fail catastrophically you can get a new one put together quickly.
Shocks, Bushings/mounts and axles will go a long way to prevent wheel hop that causes premature catastrophic failure.
If your car has bad gear whine you might want to consider getting yourself another housing from a non V or an SRX so that if it does fail catastrophically you can get a new one put together quickly.
11-19-2014, 04:47 PM
#11
TECH Fanatic
11-19-2014, 07:36 PM
#12
Yeah, you just swap the V guts into the SRX diff. I think you *might* have to change the pinion flange. You can also use the 3.91 gears from an SRX manual diff if you want. Just transfer the gears to the V limited slip. You gotta know what you're doing to properly set up preload and gear lash, though.
. Ya know...since those parts are "not available". O.o
11-20-2014, 12:11 PM
#14
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Now that this thread is thoroughly off topic(sorry OP), is there any info for rebuilding a diff that as a community we don't yet know? I happen to work with the diff supplier at a non-GM OEM and have been networking my way to hardware guys who make rear diffs. I figure if anyone can help the community on the repair side they can. I'm just not sure what info is still missing.
From what I have determined the housing is common to the CTS, SRX and possibly the sky/solstice. The major difference for the V is the LSD and 3.73 gears(there are 3.73 SRX, but they are harder to find).
From what I have determined the housing is common to the CTS, SRX and possibly the sky/solstice. The major difference for the V is the LSD and 3.73 gears(there are 3.73 SRX, but they are harder to find).
11-20-2014, 06:34 PM
#15
Rebuilding the stock diff is remedial at best. Spend a little more money and go with an 8.8 swap of you choice or at least get a new axle.
IF that is too much money then buy multiple used diffs and keep swapping them out, but do NOT waste your time and money rebuilding one of these pieces of s h i t.
This is from actual experience and not some internet dribble.
IF that is too much money then buy multiple used diffs and keep swapping them out, but do NOT waste your time and money rebuilding one of these pieces of s h i t.
This is from actual experience and not some internet dribble.
11-21-2014, 06:05 AM
#16
TECH Fanatic
Are you suggesting that buying a used SRX diff and swapping the guts into it is not worth it? (I do NOT want to put 8.8-type money into my car.)
11-21-2014, 07:13 AM
#17
C5 corvette uses the same LSD clutch pack discs. Same side gear thrust washers. And several other parts. These parts can be purchased fairly inexpensively. IF money is tight OR you flat out don't want to spend $3k+ on rear diff stuff.... Gut swapping or replacing remedial worn or broken parts is far cheaper. Despite 54's OPINION that its a waste of time or money.... It's still cheaper by far. Plenty of cts-v's are running the stock diff JUST FINE. Spoken from ACTUAL experience also.
11-21-2014, 07:15 AM
#18
Based on your mod list, you are way deeper into your car tham I am. I found a used 8.8 for 455 shipped, diff rebuild kit plus labor is 500ish, the CS partial kit with brackets, new stock driveshaft adapter, and DSS axles is 1875, and you're done. That's not a whole lot when you look at people who are on their 3rd or 4th diff.
11-21-2014, 07:28 AM
#19
Also... If you break your case it's very easy to swap your guts to a cheap CTS, srx case for minimal $$. If you kill a diff carrier bearing or thrust washers, or pinion bearing.... Those are easily bought and replaced with no "setup" using special tools. If yourdumLSD isn't working right, not holding power and is due to stripping the click material off our whatever other reason. Those are also easily replaced from dealer or eBay and do not use special tools to install.
The only thing that would be time consuming is setting the tooth engagement and lash. Can be done by hand witg out any special tools. Of course it would not be cost effective to pay a shop to do it, but if for whatever reason you want to do this from scratch, it is possible.
The only thing that would be time consuming is setting the tooth engagement and lash. Can be done by hand witg out any special tools. Of course it would not be cost effective to pay a shop to do it, but if for whatever reason you want to do this from scratch, it is possible.