Cape T/A

I'm wanting to swap an LS engine into a 70-73 firebird. Those of you who have experience in doing this, how much do you think I would spend by getting a LS3 and Auto trans (from lets say a wrecked 2010 camaro) and having a finished product in the second gen? I do all the work myself. I believe hooker headers makes swap crossmembers and headers for the swap. But I have no clue how much any of this could add up to. Have any of you all tackled something like this and if so how much did you spend start to finish?

ls1nova71

iTrader: (4)

Depends on how much you can get the engine for, and also what other things you will need to fix because you're "already there". But what ever you think it would cost, tripling it should get you close!

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

I wasn't a fan of the "take what you think and triple it" approach but it seems to work for many people. However, I'm pretty detail minded and tend to account for a lot more incidental costs than most. When someone like ls1nova71 gives the above advice, I would listen because he has built and documented several cars from the ground up.

Overall I think it depends on what your skill, comfort level and desired output are with a project of this scope to really know the answer.

Other things that initially come to mind which will swallow a ton of money and time are:

• What is your timetable, can you wait / hunt for deals or is there a short deadline
• Is this a running, driving vehicle or a stripped "roller"
• Are you trying to build a track bruiser or street cruiser
• Do you want things like AC, power windows, etc.
• Does the car need a complete resto or is the body / interior fine as is
• Are you an **** retentive detail freak who will replace every nut, bolt and screw or is whatever you have going to work
• etc., etc.

cam

iTrader: (9)

If you hit the road running and tuned for under 10K? I'll be very impressed

1970camaroRS

iTrader: (8)

Counting the cam, supporting valve-train, ported heads, headers, ported oil-pump, electric fuel pump, intake, carb, ignition box, adapters, various misc. items, and the engine itself - it cost me about $4400 to swap a LQ4 into my '70 Camaro.

krackerjack

Im about ready to due the same thing to my 79 TA, I got the LS3 and a 6l90 for 8k ready togo new harness ect. I need headers,Cats, fuel system upgrade, most likely a new driveshaft, upgrade the rear end has stock 2.41 gears, that alone about 3k then my interior I need or want new seats, Corbeus and a new das so another 1500. I will have a bout 14k in it, Im sure it can be done for a lot less,but im one of those who wants it right the 1st around. Im pulling the old olds 6.6 out of it and due some touch up work then in the new motor and a lot less worries. More power, better fuel mileage, and the grin on my face drop the hammer on these punk kids with their slammed down Hondas and nissans that sound like a bunch of hornets that have lost their voice due to their valve trains are about to break.

Jeff Smith

iTrader: (44)

I would like to have Ls3 motor for my Camaro roll cage if I win lottery $$$$

Docked Wage

The best number I've come up with is $1500 over and above what you pay for the engine/transmission package. It could be more or it could be less. Example:

$150 to get the computer tuned.
$250 to get the harness modified.
$85 for the fuel pump.
$40 for the filter/regulator.
$60 for fuel lines hoses and fittings.
$400 for a radiator and fan setup.
$250 driveshaft shortening.
$75 Adapter mounts.

Right there you have just over $1300. It's not hard to throw another $200 at the project from there.

cam

iTrader: (9)

Cheap.Fast.Reliable. Pick 2

150 for a tune? Its at least 100 bucks in credit cost to tune and engine and an auto.... let alone the few hours time it takes to tune it plus dyno time if applicable.

Any tune for 150 bucks is not much of a tune. Smartest money you can spend on the whole build is hiring the BEST tuner you can find.

Crazy to think people will spend thousands on parts chasing horsepower gains and then cheap out on the tune which is worth the most hp gains and how safely, and reliably your set up will perform.

250 harness mods? Yikes.... twisted wires and tape? To do a harness that is going to last like stock takes a LOT of time or it costs a LOT of coin. Speartech is good

250 to shorten a stock drive shaft? You can buy a 1000 hp rated brand new one for 500 bucks with 1350 yoke and u joints and never have to worry about the shaft again....

I guess if all you want to do is get an LS engine in a car, cruise around slow, and talk smack at the local cruise or the like then you can duct tape one together on the cheap, but if you want to enjoy the performance potential and have it last and most of all be safe? Get cheap out of your head.

Set performance goals first, then plan costs, you end up with a much better build this way that hits the cost mark more accurately. Simply diving in and buying parts as you go will end up costing you out the ***, or you'll cut corners and have a half good/half **** box build that will have next to no resale value and/or not run as well as you would like.

If your going to take all the time and spend coin to go through with something as nice as an LS swap? Do it right or just buy an LS car and go.

Docked Wage

Yep, As I said in my opening statement, "It could be more, it could be less".

The numbers that I threw out are not meant to be gospel only an example.

You are obviously on the more racing/pro tour side of the equation.

Your point is well taken and this is why I laugh when I see the guys that say this swap can be done inexpensively.

Heck the front cover of this months Chevy High Performance says "Complete Tri-Five LS Conversion for $1700!" of which $900 was the motor cost alone. I would love to see a complete Bill Of Materials on that write-up just to understand how they did it so cheap.

Docked Wage

Just to clarify:

A tune at $150 is a mail order tune to get the swap on the road. For Dyno add $300 minimum.

For the harness mod at $250 the assumption is using the existing stock harness from the donor motor. Not one piece of tape or a twisted wire anywhere but you will need your own fusebox and relays. Expect to add about $75 for those parts. From there the sky is the limit on harness pricing. If you want to DIY expect 8-10 hours to do it.

As for the driveshaft I should clarify that the yokes were replaced and it came with new u-joints also for the $250. If It were just shortened it would have been like $150.

Again these numbers are not gospel, not race/pro-tour they're for a solid LS driver (cheap-reliable)which is what many of the folks reading these conversion pages are looking for. If the OP is at race/pro-tour level at least double or triple every thing I listed.

cam

iTrader: (9)

I understand but if the OP just wants a cruiser why go for a 430 hp GenIV LS3 that will snap his stock driveshaft and eat 28 spline axles for breakfast then?

If cheap and driver is what hes after then get a gen3 4.8 or 5.3 with a 4L60 and go cheap and low power and forget the things ive said. It'll still be fun to drive and get great mileage and theres no one stopping him from dressing it up to look like an LS3 or something cool. If your going to cheap out and go poser? Go hard, it can be fun.

LS3 engines fetch PREMIUM dollars because they really are premium engines and a GenIV modded stand alone harness is a far cry from a genIII plus he wants to run a 6spd which means tin work and cross member and driveshaft mods.

As I said if he gets it running down the road for less than 10K? I'll be impressed.

So considering all that it just seems silly to spend that kind of coin and put that kind of work into a swap and then back it up with poo parts that wont take the jam the engine produces. Plus with a long tube header mod and a fresh cam that LS3 engine can pump out 500 plus ponies with ease. 450 whp is pretty easy with an LS3

So now add a wheel and tire package, and suspension/brake system that can safely handle that power and it starts to add up QUICK. Im not suggesting pro touring or pro street or pro drag, im simply suggesting that if cheap and slow is what you want? Do a cheap and slow engine. Dont do an LS3 swap half assed, its just a waste of time and money or you'll just tear up parts and thats NO FUN at all.

Mind you for every car that hits the road and is bombing around year after year there's 100 in pieces in someones garage for many reasons. Life happens, not to mention the best laid plans of mice and men...

My posts are not to dismay, they are from experience and in an effort to help this guy get a car built that he ( she? ) will be happy with. Its all quite simple; the formula is How fast do you want to buy? That's it really. The rest is easy.

Anyways if you want a nice clean LS3 swap that wows people when they look at it? Id say you could get it done around 10K if you do ALL the work yourself and have a lot of wrench experience and can weld. If your trying to buy all swap parts and farm out the complex work? Its going to run you closer to 20K or even more depending how fancy you want to get, but keep in mind, That will be a clean build that will run for 100+K miles without grief. This is how I think, I could care less about building something that only goes around the block once with the hood off and sits unpainted on stands in the garage as a conversation piece forever and a day.

If you want easy? GM has so many 11 second Vettes right now they're TRYING to sell them, no fabrication work required and one awesome car, here ya go;

Cunning69

I think it will cost you more tha you think, here is a link to a post I put up yesterday on what I had to buy to install a LQ4 into a 69 Camaro:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/chevrolet...st-issues.html

I spent $6000 on engine and parts not counting the transmission.

cam

iTrader: (9)

Agreed its easily done but Im sure for 6K you have a nice sweet engine! Its not easy or cheap to build any car, let alone an LS3 which is only trumped in cost by the boosted variants or the LS7. Its the cream of the crop right now $$$

DWS

I'm planning a similar conversion, but in an 81 Trans Am with an Ly6 / 4L80e. Trying to keep it under $10k. The biggest $$$ adders I've come across is moding the engine for more power. Sure, I could bolt on an LS3 intake for $500 and keep the rest stock, but the temptation to swap a cam, replace a converter, add bigger injectors, NOS, Turbo or whatever can easily break the bank and make your dream a project that sits in the garage for years and years.

For me, I'm going to TRY to keep it as stock as possible, but I know I'll probably do a cam swap and I know I'll be in it for close to $10k...


Doug

cam

iTrader: (9)

Boost vs NA is a KEY choice that needs to be made before buying ANY parts including the engine. Boost is a whole new world of cost. Sure theres the Denmah builds out there but even his numbers dont come in as "cheap" and when your actually DONE with an LS swap driving down the road? If you used cheap China junk parts or the like it will haunt you with worry of "whens this going to break?" etc. The "cost" of going cheap is no fun at all and theres considerable work to completing a swap, so value your time and buy worthy stuff so you dont waste the efforts.

A cam swap in an LY6 is heaps of fun or run an older 6.0L and do the L92/LS3 head swap it works just as well but the older versions need some upgrades ( oil pump, timing chain, and oil pump most likely ) and if theres a lot of miles ( 175k plus ) a trunion bearing swap is in order too as well as general inspection etc.

Even a stock LY6 will chug out solid 12's with a good tune and headers in a 3500lb car.

Cape T/A

Thanks for all the replys guys! I didnt expect to get this much feed back!

I feel confidient to do anything myself on my own car except welding (well I can weld, but Im picky and ill leave that to someone with more experience) or body work.
I know it would be much easier and cheaper to buy a LS powered car and go from there, but I have already done that and I loved my 10 second trans am, but it always left me wanting something that you dont see much of and since I have always had a love for the 70-73 Trans Ams I decided thats what im going to do.
I plan to buy a car that is a complete driver with decent interior and decent paint (no show stopper, but something that isnt begging to get repainted immediatly) to me this seems to be the most cost effective way to get into one of these cars VS buying one as a shell and starting from the ground up. I'll probably upgrade the wheels right away, and probably brakes and suspension also. After I have saved up enough money I'll tackle the engine and yank out whatever it has and do the LS swap, I'm not dead set on doing an LS3 and 6speed auto because I know they are so expensive, ill cross that bridge when I get there.
Mostly I suppose what Im asking is besides the engine and trans, what all is doing this swap costing you all? I do plan to keep/or install A/C, Heat, and power steering.

Cape T/A

I plan to keep the car N/A for the most part, Ill probably do a heads and cam swap eventually and I may sneek one of Nitrous Outlets nitrous pucks in the intake when I start to get bored with the car, lol.

cam

iTrader: (9)

Nice! TenK is a nice goal and doable if your careful, but id guess 12-15K will cover this kind of build if your doing the work yourself based on what you said. This is for nice, Grade A pieces, theres a lot of ways to save if you want to as mentioned.

Fresh drop outs with low miles from reputable yards are 99% of the time fine. You could always look into truck/escalade 6.2 6spd combos. The short block is essentially the same thing as an L99 and both share the same heads as the LS3 so power potential is there ( all the good go fast parts on the engine are the same ) but the intake manifold wont clear stock hood, and accesory drive could be a problem. Sometimes they come up a good bit cheaper so you dont have to pay the Camaro/Corvette tax

I've been digging those early second gen's again ever since I saw this car

Cape T/A

I'd love to try and do something similar to what Speed Inc did with their car, I know my budget won't allow for one this nice, but id like to get it similar.