My Powerhaus-Performance experience
06-09-2013, 03:19 PM
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My Powerhaus-Performance experience I feel that others need to know what happened to my car at Powerhuas Performance in Gloucester City, NJ. I had work done on my 2009 Pontiac G8 GT with roughly 37,000 miles at the time. Just facts, tune and datalog files, pictures, & video.
Here is a list of what was requested. Dropped the car off on April 16th. It wasn't done in time. Actually picked the car up on the evening of the 30th.
Here is a list of problems
Video of me showing some symptoms.
Spreadsheet, datalog, & HPT
Track time slip data.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_1...it?usp=sharing
Datalog. Must have HPTuners
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_1...it?usp=sharing
Tune. Must have HPTuners
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_1...it?usp=sharing
Video from the Powerhaus youtube page. You can see the exhaust problems.
Pictures of exhaust.
They have made 4 attempts to fix the tune. I took a day off work to take them the car. Had to rent a car. They did replace a failed oxygen sensor for free. Also went for a few rides with me and datalogged briefly. Not sure how it was missed because our datalogs picked it up immediately. I've called and emailed them about the problems. They stopped responding to my emails. The last time I went to the shop to talk about it during normal business hours noone was there. I've called more then enough times but no answer. I was really understanding about it for too long. Four opportunities to correct the problems is more than enough.
What I've done since.
Here is a list of what was requested. Dropped the car off on April 16th. It wasn't done in time. Actually picked the car up on the evening of the 30th.
- ARH Long Tube Headers and install
- Custom Exhaust work to connect headers to existing Borla X-pipe
- Circle-D 3200 stall converter and install
- H&R coil springs and install
- Roll fenders
- Powder Coat brake calipers
- Powder Coat my new wheels
- Order Hankook tires and TPMS
- "Performance" Alignment
- NGK plugs
Here is a list of problems
- Brake pedal to the floor. Rear calipers on wrong side(upside down). Air in ABS module.
- Passenger side of exhaust knocking transmission mount
- Drivers side of exhaust severely scraping
- Exhaust leaks
- Use of non stainless steel adapters
- Passenger exhaust pipe repeatedly falling off of hanger
- Exhaust tips out of alignment on both side, one side touching plastic diffuser.
- Strut Mount Knock. I was told afterwords that during the spring install the Bearings fell apart and rolled away on the floor and they where put back on the car. They did not inform me or offer to replace.
- OTR CAI (Over The Radiator Cold Air Intake) installed over radiator support which left the radiator free to flop around and the hood closed on it pinching the intake. Hood is now slightly out of place. But CAI undamaged.
- Stalled several times on cold starts. (never did this before)
- RPM surging.
- Converter locking and unlocking erratically.
- some shifts laggy.
- some shifts super hard.
- 3-2 downshift too hard. Chirped tires.
- Confusion in auto and sport shift when going WOT
- Slower in 1/4 mile with better weather, DA, and better 60'
- Four attempts to make adjustments to tune. Some things got better, some things got worse.
- Cracked paint on fender. However keep in mind that G8 paint is known to be thin. I'll give'em that one.
Video of me showing some symptoms.
Spreadsheet, datalog, & HPT
Track time slip data.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_1...it?usp=sharing
Datalog. Must have HPTuners
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_1...it?usp=sharing
Tune. Must have HPTuners
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4_1...it?usp=sharing
Video from the Powerhaus youtube page. You can see the exhaust problems.
Pictures of exhaust.
They have made 4 attempts to fix the tune. I took a day off work to take them the car. Had to rent a car. They did replace a failed oxygen sensor for free. Also went for a few rides with me and datalogged briefly. Not sure how it was missed because our datalogs picked it up immediately. I've called and emailed them about the problems. They stopped responding to my emails. The last time I went to the shop to talk about it during normal business hours noone was there. I've called more then enough times but no answer. I was really understanding about it for too long. Four opportunities to correct the problems is more than enough.
What I've done since.
- Paid exhaust shop to fix the exhaust.
- Paid the dealer to purge the ABS module.
- New alignment after new strut mounts.
- Paid a tuner to datalog, load stock tune, and make slight adjustments just to get it drivable with the aftermarket converter. (Better at the track in worse conditions and a worse 60')
- Still waiting on phonecall for my wheels and tires.
Last edited by Uncko Macko; 06-12-2013 at 02:45 PM.
06-09-2013, 06:52 PM
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Wow!!!! Thats impressive.... Maybe their tuner is a fly bye night tuner that jumps shops or just started? The rest sounds like you would have better luck at pepboys doing the work.
3 words!
REIDICULOUS!!
Sounds like a full refund and a big sorry is due.
3 words!
REIDICULOUS!!
Sounds like a full refund and a big sorry is due.
06-09-2013, 07:08 PM
#4
Didn't you bring them an exhaust or midpipe that doesn't mate up to the headers you ordered, yet you wanted them to make it work. If you wanted a perfect fitting exhaust then you should have just ordered the midpipe that was engineered to mate with your headers like everyone else does. Sounds like you tried to save a buck and ended up costing you more in the long run. Powerhaus said they pointed this out beforehand and you said to make it work, sometimes making it work comes with disadvantages.
You knew the strut mounts were bad when you brought your car there, why didn't you buy new ones so they could install them with the springs?
The co-owner of Powerhaus offered to refund your money for the tune, go get it when you pick up your wheels... hopefully you credit card doesn't get declined again.
Just so you have both sides of the story...
You knew the strut mounts were bad when you brought your car there, why didn't you buy new ones so they could install them with the springs?
The co-owner of Powerhaus offered to refund your money for the tune, go get it when you pick up your wheels... hopefully you credit card doesn't get declined again.
Originally Posted by m3ntal
We are here EVERYDAY from 9am-6pm. Often times way past 6pm...We are also here just about every Saturday. The only time we have been closed was for OCMD and it was posted. Also, I check the call log daily and have no calls from Mike! Incredible. No messages from him either! We sent him an email a few days ago to let him know that his wheels were done being powdercoated but still haven't heard back from him! Often times we would get 6-7 email responses from him a day but now he won't respond to any emails about coming to get his wheels?? Instead, we are being blamed for poor communication.
Who is this guy in OCMD with a cobalt ss that was tuned by us? To date we have only tuned one turbo cobalt ss and I believe it was your friend. We just turned up the boost and left a completely factory tune on his car?!?! I find that really hard to believe considering it made well over 300 whp.
Again, I offered you a refund on your tune if you were unhappy with it. Instead, I was accused of not being confident in our work. Why didn't you come in for your refund? What gives?
Also, you KNEW about your strut bearings being bad. YOU TOLD US YOU TOOK IT TO THE DEALER FOR WARRANTY WORK BUT THEY DID NOT WANT TO HELP YOU. Why didn't you ask us to replace them????? Again, this is just being used to discredit our shop.
We have modified and tuned many cars since opening and you are the ONLY customer that has complained about all these issues we created. I find that overly odd. 1998silverbird has had some kinda of personal vendetta with us since day one. I don't know what his problem is. He has actually made up things that were completely untrue like the time he said a certain blue z06 had a huge dip in power after we tuned it. Newsflash, it had the huge dips when we baselined it! We also have never met him or dealt with him in person so I'm having a hard time trying to understand why he is talking **** about Powerhaus every chance he gets!
Here is a private message from 01slpss:
"Powerhaus Performance
We are just clearing the air with what your acquaintance is saying to bad mouth our shop when he has not had any first hand experience with us.
And as for reference you did bad mouth us publicly on facebook, which is your opinion you are entitled to. But Jeff was using your vehicle as a direct complaint against us that is the only reason your situation was brought up.
As for the 23* set across the timing table, I am not sure at what you were looking at because this is your timing table in the car when it left our shop. And we did pull extra timing in case you wanted to up the shot.
:screenshot of tune here:
May 9Kevin Garretson
well from here on out Im out of this. I do not know whats going on or why jeff is shooting his mouth off. I knew you and mike were trying really hard to figure out what was going on and jeff made it increasingly difficult. That timing table is nothing like what I saw when we pulled up the tune, so i dont know what had happened. Bottom line, Im out of this any future posts or anything that goes on Im not involved in, Ive told jeff to let it go several times already. I wish you guys the best."
Who is pulling the tunes from these cars? Is it the same person? Sounds like a possible conspiracy to me considering Roshan sent a screen shot of Kevin's car and it was nothing like what Kevin said he pulled from the car. Also, MGM GT has seen Roshans tunes in multiple cars and notes that the Red G8's tune is completely uncharacteristic of all the tunes he has seen. There has been DOZENS and DOZENS of happy G8 customers with custom tunes by Powerhaus. Hmmm...
@uncko macko
You say we weren't there May 22 at 12:19pm....is it possible that maybe we were at lunch that day during lunch time??
Also, I know for a fact Roshan sent you an email a day after the wheels showed up to our shop to let you know that the wheels were in and that since your credit card was denied twice for the last bill that we would need to run it again. Anyway, your wheels are here! We would love it if you came to pick them up along with your new tires. We are there Monday-Sat 9am to 6pm. Sometimes we go to lunch and eat though.
We tried to do everything for Mike to satisfy him. He came in multiple times complaining about his shifts and Roshan tried adjusting it for him based on his complaints. Roshan went for a test drive with him to see how he could fix it. I went for an hour long test drive with Mike and the problems couldn't be replicated. The exhaust did rattle a bit in the last 10 mins. When we got back from the test drive I dropped what I was doing and pulled a car off the lift to inspect it. I still think there is a possible problem with the torque converter but the tune is still being blamed. We have had 20+ g8s come through the shop in two months and no one BUT Mike has voiced any complaints. I am 100 percent confident the engine tuning aspect of the tune is good. We tried to help him in every situation UNTIL we saw his group of friends bad mouthing us on facebook. That was the last straw unfortunately.
As for the rear calipers being on the wrong side it was a simple mistake. The bleeder nipples were on the bottom instead of the top. I fixed it on the spot for him.
One of his ABS wires came loose for some reason and it was throwing a code and I had the alignment shop fix it for him while it was there. I was billed for it and did not charge Mike a penny.
Mike called me one day and told me his lady friends water pump blew up on her Mazda CX7. I took that car in the very next day and sourced parts for it even though I was booked for the next couple days and fixed it for her.
ALL of the delays that happened were solely because of the powdercoating which I had no control over. 1998silverbird just makes it out to be Powerhaus' fault for being slow or incompetent. You should see some of the projects that we have completed with very happy customers.
Yes he spent nearly 6k but a MAJORITY of that was in parts and powdercoating. Not to mention his friends tab for the Mazda was on there. Our prices were super fair for all the installations. I think we charged $100-$150 to make his existing exhaust fit up to his new headers which was not an easy task. It was also tig welded together. Many hours spent trying to get parts that weren't meant to go together to work because he did not want to buy the proper X-pipe. I surely lost out on that one.
1998silverbird,
You say we haven't returned any of his calls or emails but that is 100 percent untrue. Mike just said he hasn't emailed or called in the last month. How could I return a phone call if he hasn't called? I check calls every morning. Emails go straight to my phone...but none from Mike. We answer every phone call that comes through unless we are on the dyno and literally can't hear anything. I am wearing ear protection when the dyno is going. If I missed your call I am truely sorry. I have checked the caller ID and haven't seen anything on there.
You truly think our tuner doesn't know what hes doing? He has tuned countless 1000+ rwp cars. A LOT of cars he has tuned has gone 10's or faster. 135 mph+ in the traps....all tuned on OUR MUSTANG DYNO.........1000's of LS motors at his previous place of employment. He has had proper training and schooling in tuning. He is focused and knows how to troubleshoot problems. Hes one of the best in the industry.
I just find it odd that out of all the cars that have come through the shop the only complaints and bad mouthing are from a group of friends. Literally. I do not understand it. Please link up any other complaints about our shop from other people besides your group of friends that all had their tunes pulled by some person "that wishes to remain anonymous".
This will be my last message here on out. To our customers that are happy with the service and results please post positive things and thank you for your support.
Who is this guy in OCMD with a cobalt ss that was tuned by us? To date we have only tuned one turbo cobalt ss and I believe it was your friend. We just turned up the boost and left a completely factory tune on his car?!?! I find that really hard to believe considering it made well over 300 whp.
Again, I offered you a refund on your tune if you were unhappy with it. Instead, I was accused of not being confident in our work. Why didn't you come in for your refund? What gives?
Also, you KNEW about your strut bearings being bad. YOU TOLD US YOU TOOK IT TO THE DEALER FOR WARRANTY WORK BUT THEY DID NOT WANT TO HELP YOU. Why didn't you ask us to replace them????? Again, this is just being used to discredit our shop.
We have modified and tuned many cars since opening and you are the ONLY customer that has complained about all these issues we created. I find that overly odd. 1998silverbird has had some kinda of personal vendetta with us since day one. I don't know what his problem is. He has actually made up things that were completely untrue like the time he said a certain blue z06 had a huge dip in power after we tuned it. Newsflash, it had the huge dips when we baselined it! We also have never met him or dealt with him in person so I'm having a hard time trying to understand why he is talking **** about Powerhaus every chance he gets!
Here is a private message from 01slpss:
"Powerhaus Performance
We are just clearing the air with what your acquaintance is saying to bad mouth our shop when he has not had any first hand experience with us.
And as for reference you did bad mouth us publicly on facebook, which is your opinion you are entitled to. But Jeff was using your vehicle as a direct complaint against us that is the only reason your situation was brought up.
As for the 23* set across the timing table, I am not sure at what you were looking at because this is your timing table in the car when it left our shop. And we did pull extra timing in case you wanted to up the shot.
:screenshot of tune here:
May 9Kevin Garretson
well from here on out Im out of this. I do not know whats going on or why jeff is shooting his mouth off. I knew you and mike were trying really hard to figure out what was going on and jeff made it increasingly difficult. That timing table is nothing like what I saw when we pulled up the tune, so i dont know what had happened. Bottom line, Im out of this any future posts or anything that goes on Im not involved in, Ive told jeff to let it go several times already. I wish you guys the best."
Who is pulling the tunes from these cars? Is it the same person? Sounds like a possible conspiracy to me considering Roshan sent a screen shot of Kevin's car and it was nothing like what Kevin said he pulled from the car. Also, MGM GT has seen Roshans tunes in multiple cars and notes that the Red G8's tune is completely uncharacteristic of all the tunes he has seen. There has been DOZENS and DOZENS of happy G8 customers with custom tunes by Powerhaus. Hmmm...
@uncko macko
You say we weren't there May 22 at 12:19pm....is it possible that maybe we were at lunch that day during lunch time??
Also, I know for a fact Roshan sent you an email a day after the wheels showed up to our shop to let you know that the wheels were in and that since your credit card was denied twice for the last bill that we would need to run it again. Anyway, your wheels are here! We would love it if you came to pick them up along with your new tires. We are there Monday-Sat 9am to 6pm. Sometimes we go to lunch and eat though.
We tried to do everything for Mike to satisfy him. He came in multiple times complaining about his shifts and Roshan tried adjusting it for him based on his complaints. Roshan went for a test drive with him to see how he could fix it. I went for an hour long test drive with Mike and the problems couldn't be replicated. The exhaust did rattle a bit in the last 10 mins. When we got back from the test drive I dropped what I was doing and pulled a car off the lift to inspect it. I still think there is a possible problem with the torque converter but the tune is still being blamed. We have had 20+ g8s come through the shop in two months and no one BUT Mike has voiced any complaints. I am 100 percent confident the engine tuning aspect of the tune is good. We tried to help him in every situation UNTIL we saw his group of friends bad mouthing us on facebook. That was the last straw unfortunately.
As for the rear calipers being on the wrong side it was a simple mistake. The bleeder nipples were on the bottom instead of the top. I fixed it on the spot for him.
One of his ABS wires came loose for some reason and it was throwing a code and I had the alignment shop fix it for him while it was there. I was billed for it and did not charge Mike a penny.
Mike called me one day and told me his lady friends water pump blew up on her Mazda CX7. I took that car in the very next day and sourced parts for it even though I was booked for the next couple days and fixed it for her.
ALL of the delays that happened were solely because of the powdercoating which I had no control over. 1998silverbird just makes it out to be Powerhaus' fault for being slow or incompetent. You should see some of the projects that we have completed with very happy customers.
Yes he spent nearly 6k but a MAJORITY of that was in parts and powdercoating. Not to mention his friends tab for the Mazda was on there. Our prices were super fair for all the installations. I think we charged $100-$150 to make his existing exhaust fit up to his new headers which was not an easy task. It was also tig welded together. Many hours spent trying to get parts that weren't meant to go together to work because he did not want to buy the proper X-pipe. I surely lost out on that one.
1998silverbird,
You say we haven't returned any of his calls or emails but that is 100 percent untrue. Mike just said he hasn't emailed or called in the last month. How could I return a phone call if he hasn't called? I check calls every morning. Emails go straight to my phone...but none from Mike. We answer every phone call that comes through unless we are on the dyno and literally can't hear anything. I am wearing ear protection when the dyno is going. If I missed your call I am truely sorry. I have checked the caller ID and haven't seen anything on there.
You truly think our tuner doesn't know what hes doing? He has tuned countless 1000+ rwp cars. A LOT of cars he has tuned has gone 10's or faster. 135 mph+ in the traps....all tuned on OUR MUSTANG DYNO.........1000's of LS motors at his previous place of employment. He has had proper training and schooling in tuning. He is focused and knows how to troubleshoot problems. Hes one of the best in the industry.
I just find it odd that out of all the cars that have come through the shop the only complaints and bad mouthing are from a group of friends. Literally. I do not understand it. Please link up any other complaints about our shop from other people besides your group of friends that all had their tunes pulled by some person "that wishes to remain anonymous".
This will be my last message here on out. To our customers that are happy with the service and results please post positive things and thank you for your support.
06-09-2013, 07:12 PM
#5
I assume you know who the tuner is... OP is leaving out some details that I filled in above. I looked at the tune he posted that he claims came from Powerhaus and it doesn't match up with the tuner in questions work at all... screenshots from the tuner were even compared so something is amiss, but they wont identify the "mystery tuner" that's hating on their work so not much else to say about it.
Why would they attempt to fab your old x-pipe to fit and not try to sell you a new one?
06-09-2013, 09:35 PM
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I truly don't understand why people do this. Nothing ever gets resolved this way.If you have an issue with any business just don't use them anymore.This proves nothing!
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06-09-2013, 10:34 PM
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Had he purchased the right part there would have been far less issues.
IIRC, we only charged him 125-150 dollars to spend countless hours trying to get his current borla mid pipes to mate up to his new ARH headers. We also tig welded it for him. But hey, that's what he wanted then we get bashed for it.
Borla Midpipes
ARH Headers
Last edited by m3ntal; 06-09-2013 at 10:53 PM.
06-10-2013, 08:53 AM
#11
Your stalled car with aftermarket exhaust dosent run like stock anymore? NO WAY.
Yet a performance shop specializing in this sort of stuff with a professional tuner cannot do the same? Ya that's lame.
06-10-2013, 12:30 PM
#13
FormerVendor
So I checked out the tune. It doesn't look to be the work of Roshan (RPM's old tuner) who from what I understood is now working there. Not sure who your mystery tuner is.
Just a few little things:
1) This tuner has disabled your front and rear O2 sensor codes completely (you shouldn't disable any of the front o2 codes unless you are running in open loop - which you are not). So if there was a problem with an o2 sensor, **** would hit the fan because the car would never report an error, and never run in a fault mode. It would treat bad data as good data. This might be your biggest problem with the car running like ****.
2) For raising the redline considerably (hopefully you have valve springs, otherwise I don't recommend going above the stock limiter), the tuner didn't really adjust shift points much. It looks like there was a lot of worthless tuning in the transmission section. Lot of nominal stuff - like just to change a table. I can see why some shifts will feel hard and some soft though. And the torque locking stuff is a little goofed up. If its a single disk, you can bet that will take its toll on the converter/transmission.
I hope you get all that stuff taken care of, I personally a new tuner should scrap this tune and then start over. Good luck.
Just a few little things:
1) This tuner has disabled your front and rear O2 sensor codes completely (you shouldn't disable any of the front o2 codes unless you are running in open loop - which you are not). So if there was a problem with an o2 sensor, **** would hit the fan because the car would never report an error, and never run in a fault mode. It would treat bad data as good data. This might be your biggest problem with the car running like ****.
2) For raising the redline considerably (hopefully you have valve springs, otherwise I don't recommend going above the stock limiter), the tuner didn't really adjust shift points much. It looks like there was a lot of worthless tuning in the transmission section. Lot of nominal stuff - like just to change a table. I can see why some shifts will feel hard and some soft though. And the torque locking stuff is a little goofed up. If its a single disk, you can bet that will take its toll on the converter/transmission.
I hope you get all that stuff taken care of, I personally a new tuner should scrap this tune and then start over. Good luck.
06-10-2013, 12:53 PM
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I still have a tuff time believing that a performance shop could not fab a xpipe to fit with LT headers but a local Midas type exhaust shop had no problems doing it... Did the Performance shop in question tell you that they can do it will just be a crappy job?
06-10-2013, 12:56 PM
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So I checked out the tune. It doesn't look to be the work of Roshan (RPM's old tuner) who from what I understood is now working there. Not sure who your mystery tuner is.
Just a few little things:
1) This tuner has disabled your front and rear O2 sensor codes completely (you shouldn't disable any of the front o2 codes unless you are running in open loop - which you are not). So if there was a problem with an o2 sensor, **** would hit the fan because the car would never report an error, and never run in a fault mode. It would treat bad data as good data. This might be your biggest problem with the car running like ****.
2) For raising the redline considerably (hopefully you have valve springs, otherwise I don't recommend going above the stock limiter), the tuner didn't really adjust shift points much. It looks like there was a lot of worthless tuning in the transmission section. Lot of nominal stuff - like just to change a table. I can see why some shifts will feel hard and some soft though. And the torque locking stuff is a little goofed up. If its a single disk, you can bet that will take its toll on the converter/transmission.
I hope you get all that stuff taken care of, I personally a new tuner should scrap this tune and then start over. Good luck.
Just a few little things:
1) This tuner has disabled your front and rear O2 sensor codes completely (you shouldn't disable any of the front o2 codes unless you are running in open loop - which you are not). So if there was a problem with an o2 sensor, **** would hit the fan because the car would never report an error, and never run in a fault mode. It would treat bad data as good data. This might be your biggest problem with the car running like ****.
2) For raising the redline considerably (hopefully you have valve springs, otherwise I don't recommend going above the stock limiter), the tuner didn't really adjust shift points much. It looks like there was a lot of worthless tuning in the transmission section. Lot of nominal stuff - like just to change a table. I can see why some shifts will feel hard and some soft though. And the torque locking stuff is a little goofed up. If its a single disk, you can bet that will take its toll on the converter/transmission.
I hope you get all that stuff taken care of, I personally a new tuner should scrap this tune and then start over. Good luck.
And people are wonderring why he is posting up his experience.. Sounds like with that tune from the performance shop there is a great chance that your tranny will blow, and that you will break valve springs or even worse.. Who needs O2 sensors anyways? They are over rated... Just freaking horrible..
06-10-2013, 01:07 PM
#16
And people are wonderring why he is posting up his experience.. Sounds like with that tune from the performance shop there is a great chance that your tranny will blow, and that you will break valve springs or even worse.. Who needs O2 sensors anyways? They are over rated... Just freaking horrible..
06-10-2013, 01:17 PM
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Um...I took it out to add my 03 Cobra in the Signature.. My sig was to long and besides everyone already knows who tuned my T/A!! My Vette is tuned as well and it wasnt Tommy that tuned that!! My 03 Cobra is tuned as well and Tommy didnt tune that. I have 3 tuners that I trust here locally and 2 that I trust in Virginia beach.. Oh and one in Delaware that I would take my car to as well.
06-10-2013, 01:53 PM
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I can tell you 2 things thats suppose to happen when you get work done at a performance shop and get a custom tune...
1. The car should be faster, not slower especially if its making 50 more rwhp on the dyno
2. You should enjoy your car even more, not disliking it after the work has been done to the point of thinking of selling it..
1. The car should be faster, not slower especially if its making 50 more rwhp on the dyno
2. You should enjoy your car even more, not disliking it after the work has been done to the point of thinking of selling it..