Self tuning Forced induction is here! Sorry dyno tuners, :(
02-21-2014, 11:31 AM
#41
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I'm not sure how you can say this is an amazing product when you haven't actually used it yet. It's like me saying my jakes 4l80e is amazing while still on the pallet. I don't doubt that it has the potential to be a great product but if you want to win people over with how great something is please do use it first.
As for the price I don't see how anyone could justify getting this limited setup when someone could spring for a complete solution like proEFI which has some of the best features on the market, completeness in tuning capability, and has been proven with forced induction setups.
As for the price I don't see how anyone could justify getting this limited setup when someone could spring for a complete solution like proEFI which has some of the best features on the market, completeness in tuning capability, and has been proven with forced induction setups.
and ill post my findings when its up and running. 
02-21-2014, 11:41 AM
#43
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You should do some more research before assuming so much from a system. The "self tuners" are not all that that are cracked up to be. Is it enough to fire a new combo up and get in on a trailer to a REAL tuner..yes. Is it smart enough to fire up a new combo and go ripping down the street.... absolutely not, not if you value all the money you put into said combo.
02-21-2014, 11:59 AM
#44
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People who do not understand what is involved with tuning, often get very mislead by these claims of self tuning, mostly because they just dont understand what is involved.
The days of simply plugging a computer onto your engine and everything doing exactly what you need and to an optimal level with NO human involvement whatsoever, are still a long way off.
And if a human has to get involved...it is no longer self tuning.
They may have some well developed setups for some engine platforms or spec's and will achieve good results based around that.
But anyone who thinks they can simply plug this into a random engine size with random turbo etc etc and it will work and do everything very well and safely have an awful lot to learn
02-21-2014, 12:15 PM
#45
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so know one has used this great system yet, but it is the greatest thing out there
well, Mike Tyson never put me on the canvas either, lol
I hear what your saying though, for us non computer guys we have searched for a way to get into FI that would work for us-I went from blowthru carbs to my first time with FI, using the Holley HP-sounded great, throw some numbers in, drive it and bam, its tuned-sold me
well, I went thru all last year trying to get mine to run right, WOT was great, punch in the AFR, timing you want, hit it, done
it was the low speed drivability that kicked my butt-then it sometimes just quit running, or didn't want to start and keep running-guys on the YB sent me tunes, advised me, but W/O someone actually there, I didn't always understand-read the man. many times, great iff you know computers, lol
I finally have it where I think it is just about perfect, need some more testing if the weather ever dries up, but I can tell you it cost 4 times as much as a CSU blowthru carb setup was and an MSD 6010 controller-throw the carb on, tweak it, ck timing and take a plug reading, great reliable system
but I do love the data logging and other stuff on the HP, go out and drive, come back and download the data, know everything, and I mean everything the engine is doing
does the Atomic datalog?-be interesting to see if it delivers
well, Mike Tyson never put me on the canvas either, lol
I hear what your saying though, for us non computer guys we have searched for a way to get into FI that would work for us-I went from blowthru carbs to my first time with FI, using the Holley HP-sounded great, throw some numbers in, drive it and bam, its tuned-sold me
well, I went thru all last year trying to get mine to run right, WOT was great, punch in the AFR, timing you want, hit it, done
it was the low speed drivability that kicked my butt-then it sometimes just quit running, or didn't want to start and keep running-guys on the YB sent me tunes, advised me, but W/O someone actually there, I didn't always understand-read the man. many times, great iff you know computers, lol
I finally have it where I think it is just about perfect, need some more testing if the weather ever dries up, but I can tell you it cost 4 times as much as a CSU blowthru carb setup was and an MSD 6010 controller-throw the carb on, tweak it, ck timing and take a plug reading, great reliable system
but I do love the data logging and other stuff on the HP, go out and drive, come back and download the data, know everything, and I mean everything the engine is doing
does the Atomic datalog?-be interesting to see if it delivers
Have i run it yet,no. Is it the ****? I dunno,but ill let you know if it's all they say it is.
02-21-2014, 12:52 PM
#46
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02-21-2014, 01:10 PM
#47
The MSD, Holley, and FAST setups all work very well. Whilenwe have heard more good reviews from the FAST, all 3 are good kits. Almost everything is included and for the most part needs very little attention.
02-21-2014, 01:17 PM
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i actually was leaning towards the FAST EZ efi setup at first,but when i called and asked if it supports blow through,they said it does not. Not even the new 3.0 version that'll support 1200HP NA.
02-21-2014, 01:39 PM
#50
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ORLY ?
From what I read it still required a person to input different variables. It still requires a hand controller for this data input. It still requires a person to select AFR targets, it still requires a user to select what sensors are used
It still required a person to tune ignition timing
So whilst they may have simplified the tuning process, it is in no way self tuning. It may be able to achieve AFR targets...with minimal human interaction ( I wonder what failsafes they have in place here for misfires, for faulty sensors etc ? )
But that is not self tuning. It is only one very small part of tuning. And nowhere does it mention what it actually drives like, transients, idle control, rev limiters, boost control and many of the things any ecu always needs programmed to control.
It is a novel system, and will suit many people. Just dont be fooled by what self tuning actually means.
02-21-2014, 02:20 PM
#51
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ORLY ?
From what I read it still required a person to input different variables. It still requires a hand controller for this data input. It still requires a person to select AFR targets, it still requires a user to select what sensors are used
It still required a person to tune ignition timing
So whilst they may have simplified the tuning process, it is in no way self tuning. It may be able to achieve AFR targets...with minimal human interaction ( I wonder what failsafes they have in place here for misfires, for faulty sensors etc ? )
But that is not self tuning. It is only one very small part of tuning. And nowhere does it mention what it actually drives like, transients, idle control, rev limiters, boost control and many of the things any ecu always needs programmed to control.
It is a novel system, and will suit many people. Just dont be fooled by what self tuning actually means.
From what I read it still required a person to input different variables. It still requires a hand controller for this data input. It still requires a person to select AFR targets, it still requires a user to select what sensors are used
It still required a person to tune ignition timing
So whilst they may have simplified the tuning process, it is in no way self tuning. It may be able to achieve AFR targets...with minimal human interaction ( I wonder what failsafes they have in place here for misfires, for faulty sensors etc ? )
But that is not self tuning. It is only one very small part of tuning. And nowhere does it mention what it actually drives like, transients, idle control, rev limiters, boost control and many of the things any ecu always needs programmed to control.
It is a novel system, and will suit many people. Just dont be fooled by what self tuning actually means.
At no point did i ever state that you could simply just hook up 4 wires on ANY engine combo and just turn the key and go. It does,as with any efi system require user input,as advertised.
"self tuning" is a catch phrase and im not nieve enough to take it literally. This is more of a "car guy" not so savvy on installing or tuning efi self "adjusting" system based off of sensor and user input.
Here is a link to the installation manual if you or anyone else care to see all the inputs/options
http://www.atomicefi.com/WorkArea/Do...id=15032387934
02-21-2014, 02:32 PM
#52
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It is a novel system for sure, and it will suit many. But it certainly isnt cheap, and I cant see it being a desirable solution for a powerful car, especially forced induction.
That simplicity it offers will end up being restrictive for bigger builds, where versatility and tuning options can make all the difference ( not to mention datalogging, dont see the MSD mention that ? )
But for a show type car, it is neat where they place the electronics, and create very short wiring. Just wonder how robust it will be in that environment in the long term.
02-21-2014, 02:32 PM
#53
without reading every reply in this thread. ill just throw this down
150 dollar MS1 does air fuel targeting since like 2003, closed loop EGO control, and itll target while in boost or vac, you just have to paste the tables afterwards to make it permanent, understanding how much power the motor will make, spark advance, reading plugs, expectations and problem solving, along with experience of what makes a solid car solid...
does not come with any hardware that i know of
usually what you are paying for, is the trust that someone is going to take your investment and make it run correctly for your money, with their experience.
trusting your electronics is great, just don't get complacent.
150 dollar MS1 does air fuel targeting since like 2003, closed loop EGO control, and itll target while in boost or vac, you just have to paste the tables afterwards to make it permanent, understanding how much power the motor will make, spark advance, reading plugs, expectations and problem solving, along with experience of what makes a solid car solid...
does not come with any hardware that i know of
usually what you are paying for, is the trust that someone is going to take your investment and make it run correctly for your money, with their experience.
trusting your electronics is great, just don't get complacent.
02-21-2014, 02:33 PM
#54
most people would not understand runaway duty cycle as a clogged fuel filter, or fuel pump running out, and the holley system is not going to understand how much ignition timing to put into your stock bottom end car.
most guys switching to fuel injection are no offense carb small block guys who throw 38deg of advance at everything, ive seen years of that while running a dyno.
most guys switching to fuel injection are no offense carb small block guys who throw 38deg of advance at everything, ive seen years of that while running a dyno.
02-21-2014, 08:04 PM
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There is no such thing as self tuning... Yes, it will correct the fueling based on the wideband readings... But, it only corrects to what YOU command - so, what are YOU gonna put in those tables?? and what are YOU going to put in the timing tables?? So, you think this system will keep you from "smoking an engine"?? hope YOU know what to put in all of those tables... They fail to tell you that the "self" in "self tuning" is your"self"...
02-21-2014, 09:10 PM
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There is no such thing as self tuning... Yes, it will correct the fueling based on the wideband readings... But, it only corrects to what YOU command - so, what are YOU gonna put in those tables?? and what are YOU going to put in the timing tables?? So, you think this system will keep you from "smoking an engine"?? hope YOU know what to put in all of those tables... They fail to tell you that the "self" in "self tuning" is your"self"...
I didn't coin the phrase self tuning,nor am i foolish enough to believe that all you do is buy this,bolt it on and that's it,self tuned. I am fully aware of all the inputs needed to make this or any other efi system start,run or operate. The only reason i brought this up in the first place was to help other car guys that maybe had a fear of efi but want it and are intimidated by the complexities of tuning an OE pcm or other non "self tuning" Ez install stand alone system.
02-21-2014, 09:12 PM
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There is no such thing as self tuning... Yes, it will correct the fueling based on the wideband readings... But, it only corrects to what YOU command - so, what are YOU gonna put in those tables?? and what are YOU going to put in the timing tables?? So, you think this system will keep you from "smoking an engine"?? hope YOU know what to put in all of those tables... They fail to tell you that the "self" in "self tuning" is your"self"...
Another really interesting thing about the Atomic LS is the injectors has the same factory angle. All the factory GM intakes will work and it appears that all of the Edelbrock LS injected intakes work as well. The holley intakes shift their injectors straight up and down, meaning the Atomic LS will not work on a holley intake.
http://www.holley.com/data/products/...rge300-126.jpg
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_..._angled_tb.pdf
I wasn't aware of that prior to today as I've never used a holley intake. I'm wondering why that is?
Here is another question I thought of today but didn't have time to make a call. MSD is the parent company of RacePak. For us drag racers, its the premier data logging hardware/software available. Given that MSD owns RacePak, do they have the same downloadable capabilities and can I transfer the data from the SD card to my laptop and view all the tables?
Guess I'll wait till Monday to find out!
02-21-2014, 09:23 PM
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The proper term is actually self "learning". The ecu learns the environment and driving of the vehicle, plus making those adjustments at sea level or at higher elevations. Its constantly "learning". Your assumptions of what your inputs do and don't do couldn't be more wrong. Within the self learning units, there are basic tables loaded. The MSD unit has 20+ pre mapped tables based on different levels of modifications. I'm unsure of the Holley unit as I havent spent the time with them on the phone to gather the information. The information the user enters into the hand held controller is there to help assist the closest map to "self learn" and make adjustments to fuel and spark tables. In other words, you could enter in the most jacked up values and the most extreme and its not going to grenade the motor.
Another really interesting thing about the Atomic LS is the injectors has the same factory angle. All the factory GM intakes will work and it appears that all of the Edelbrock LS injected intakes work as well. The holley intakes shift their injectors straight up and down, meaning the Atomic LS will not work on a holley intake.
http://www.holley.com/data/products/...rge300-126.jpg
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_..._angled_tb.pdf
I wasn't aware of that prior to today as I've never used a holley intake. I'm wondering why that is?
Here is another question I thought of today but didn't have time to make a call. MSD is the parent company of RacePak. For us drag racers, its the premier data logging hardware/software available. Given that MSD owns RacePak, do they have the same downloadable capabilities and can I transfer the data from the SD card to my laptop and view all the tables?
Guess I'll wait till Monday to find out!
Another really interesting thing about the Atomic LS is the injectors has the same factory angle. All the factory GM intakes will work and it appears that all of the Edelbrock LS injected intakes work as well. The holley intakes shift their injectors straight up and down, meaning the Atomic LS will not work on a holley intake.
http://www.holley.com/data/products/...rge300-126.jpg
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_..._angled_tb.pdf
I wasn't aware of that prior to today as I've never used a holley intake. I'm wondering why that is?
Here is another question I thought of today but didn't have time to make a call. MSD is the parent company of RacePak. For us drag racers, its the premier data logging hardware/software available. Given that MSD owns RacePak, do they have the same downloadable capabilities and can I transfer the data from the SD card to my laptop and view all the tables?
Guess I'll wait till Monday to find out!
http://www.atomicefi.com/WorkArea/Do...id=15032387934