Smallblockguy

The car and the coffin, dragweek style (trailer is ******* weird to sleep in)


Old gen 1 371 cu. in. flat tappet cam, cast iron heads, drove it everywhere

naturally aspirated 4.8l ms3x/msd 6012 swap daily driven last summer

boosted

here's how the suspension acts (1.49 60ft)
Here's a walk through of the current mods
here's some screen shots of the ms3, ve1 table one is gas, ve3 table is methanol











intake build
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...onversion.html

Looking to make sure that I have my pwm modifictaion correct for the 1.6ohm billet atomizeers.

What does 20 hg\in of vaccuum convert to in kpa? 67kpa??? I get 20hg of my gauge but my map sensor reads 32kpa?

Hopefully we can make this stuff work! Looking to go 10.00 @ 134.99

gonna use 3.9 for required fuel.

Here's the current specs
2008 4.8
799 heads
stock cam
blue gmpp valvesprings
arp head studs
corvette oil pan and exhaust manifolds
modified vic jr
t6 s475 1.32 cast wheel turbo
60mm wastegate
2.5" undivided hotside
stock truck gasoline injectors
225 billet atomizers
aeromotive belt pump
aeromotive regulator
fst 500 fuel filter
an-10 bmrs lines
megasquirt 3.57x
msd 6012
innovation mtx-l wideband
turbo werx scavenge pump
3" non intercooled cold side
stock truck throttle body
4" down pipe
100% methanol
87 octane gasoline
3000 stall manual valve body billet pump 700r4
4:44 ford 9 33 spline ladder bar rear end
3400 lbs
#8 non projected tip gapped at .016

My fuel load axis's number should all be 255 as this is the max of the map sensor? Or should they max out with the boost level I am currently tuning to? (8psi)

I can't use the controller step auth. in the afr control because is causes oscillation of the afr ratio? Not sure what's up with that.

The current setting shown are to fire it on the gas injectors only. The way it will drive down the highway.

I will have to change the req. fuel, dual fuel options, afr control numbers, injector size, wideband settings, )cant think of anying else rigt now, but there might be something else) every time I go to run it on methanol. Gonna try to switch fro gas to meth at 1400 rpm.

Smallblockguy

Reject

iTrader: (24)

pretty sweet screen shots man

jay_rich

iTrader: (8)

I cant offer any help on the tuning part. I wouldnt mind seeing some more photo's of the setup though! Clean Z28!

Jay

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

In for results...

denmah

iTrader: (2)

any reason why you are not using the 3x to control timing?

Smallblockguy

First go at efi. Simplicity.

denmah

iTrader: (2)

gotcha, it can be daunting to setup a ms3x box

Photochop

iTrader: (74)

Interested in results from 87oct/100% meth.

What are your thoughts on the transition of 87 to bringing in the methanol vs engine load and power NA into boost? Are you using a boost activation for the methanol?

Smallblockguy

With the belt drive fuel pump and methanol not recommended to sit in the injectors. I plan to only have this dual setup active at the track. I want to basically just use 87 to taxi around the pits. The 87 will help put heat in the motor and reduce oil contamination. I want to get into the methanol ASAP to benefit from its larger exhaust gas volume to be able build boost more quickly. I plan to trigger the switch based on rpm well before boost.

After my track day, I can change the settings in the megasquirt and msd, flush the meth system, pull the belt off the pump and go.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

How much power do you want to make? Seems like an electric pump would be half the hassle. Could just shut it off with a switch instead of playing with belts.

225lb injectors seem like overkill for a mostly stock motor and may be hard to idle on pump gas. At idle my 160lb injectors are at .4% Duty Cycle on E85. Can't imagine what duty cycle a 225lb injector would be on pump gas. On E85 and 160's I see around 54% DC at 25psi on e85. (5.3 243 heads)

Maybe you could setup the electric methanol pumps on a RPM/TPS switch. Then use the "in boost" section of the fuel map for methanol tune and the "out of boost" for 87 pump fuel. Then you would always have methanol on the fly without playing with different tunes and flushing systems.

Smallblockguy

I want to go 10.0s. 800 h.p.??? Over built fuel system for this motor for sure.

The belt comes off by loosening one bolt and sliding the bracket, hardly a task.

I believe you may be mistaken, It idles on stock injectors and transitions into the 225's on the fly using the rpm signal (1600) to trigger the switch. Two completely seperate fuel sytems. The ms3x will not run my 1.6 ohm low impedance 225's as its primary injector. The v3 board will over heat.

Ran it yesterday for the first time on the dual fuel setup!!! Transitions from 87 to methanol very smoothly! Taxi's around the pits like a kitten. Everything works great! The ve table and timing map are coming together, ran it at 5.5 psi and 18 degrees total timing, (thats got to be way safe on pure methanol) went 110 mph on a 1000 or so foot pass. (slow throttle rate)

Smallblockguy

A nice side benefit... I burnt about a 1/2 gallon of methanol over five test hits! I can stay under the 1600 rpm trigger when taxiing around the track.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Sweet! Do you have to use RPM to ramp in the methanol? Can you use more than one trigger? IE RPM and Map sensor? Or RPM and TPS? Say 3500rpm and 100% TPS ramps in the second injector set?

turboventura

On a motor that new what all did it take to get rid of all that DOD/AFM? Just some lifters and lifter valley? And for your first step into efi doing a dual fuel system is very impressive, I'd like to do this with e85/87.

Smallblockguy

Nope, you can wire a ton of the inputs to trigger it, nitrous input, tableswitch, Datalog trigger, 22 hardware inputs in all. Or you can use a kpa point, tps point, or rpm point. I am using table switching which allows only one trigger, table blending may allow more than one trigger, not really sure.

Smallblockguy

Never pulled off the valley cover, not sure what's down there! Haha

Smallblockguy

I want to base my tuning off of Denmah's reference, but I wonder how much more timing 100% methanol will end up liking?

(Denmah quote)
here is what i do

i use approx 24deg of timing at 0boost, about 14deg at 14psi and i go from there, each combination is different but i have never blown one up with 14psi and 14deg.

usually i will get on a dyno, and add a degree up or down and see if it picks up power

when the car is happy in my opinion it will make like 20hp per degree, sometimes more.

each degree you add will add substantial power usually, and at some point it will only add about half, say 5-10deg.

once you hit that point and keep going you are going to get knock or break ringlands.
this is what i learned after an entire year of busting these ringlands out of the motors

it will make the power it wants, and it will tell you when its done.

you can also do the same thing at the track. checking mph gains.

i would pull plugs and look at them for spots and marks from detonation also, you can also check the strap on the end of the plug, you should have discoloration in the center of the strap, that means the timing is dead on.

other than that, do not get timing envy from the internet, and people saying they are pumping 20deg on 20lbs of boost, i dont know how they get away with that ****, because i certainly broke 20 motors chasing that stuff haha

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

That’s a good method, though I’m sure with methanol you’ll end up with a TON more timing. Pump gas tune VS methanol is like comparing apples to oranges. The amount of fuel in the CC is so huge in comparison and so much slower burning you need to light it off sooner to get a completeish burn (more lead). Also it has totally different plug requirements. You’ll need a plug that’s hot enough it doesn’t foul on 87 octane, but cold enough it doesn’t turn into a glow plug at high boost and timing with the methanol. Finding a happy place between the two will take some work. Once your 100% transitioned over to methanol I could see it taking 22-24*+ of timing at 20+lbs of boost. Always good to go slow though. Are you going to tune it on a dyno?

Have you looked into straight ethanol instead of methanol? It would work better for most in my opinion. Plenty of octane and anti-knock, less demand on the fuel system, and will require less lead, less corrosive, allows for better plug choices etc… Unless your running nutty high compression and boost methanol is kinda overkill IMO. The other option would be to run a 50/50 mix of methanol and pump fuel. That would still give you plenty of knock suppression and not require such a night and day difference in the tune.

Smallblockguy

Thanks for the feedback

I have always been a fan of track testing, don't plan to Dyno.

Sounds like my timing map before boost is gonna be WAY up there! 9.0 compression and a short stoke.

Ethanol is only available through race fuel supplier around here, really pricey compared to the chemical grade methanol (Irving) available just up road.