Turbos running out of steam
02-03-2016, 07:52 AM
#61
Agreed. Some will say it might not be worth the hassle since this is an E85 car but for me personally removing the inter cooler will do many things such as allow better airflow to the radiator, less weight on the front end and it will also allow me to run much larger Air filters on the car which is something i really think was causing the original issue on tip of coupled with the smaller AR and turbine.
02-03-2016, 08:49 AM
#62
May go without saying, but pay some extra attention when laying out the A2W system initially. Make sure you have super easy access to fill/drain it and a huge lid as mentioned and possibly an insulated Water tank. Nothing against A2W, but I’ve had several buddies that have switched over and absolutely hated it. Draining/refilling in between each round gets old. Constantly sweating water tank, IC, and piping inside the car does as well. Also you need a way to contain that sweating water. (not easy to do with a sheet metal interior) They wouldn’t let my buddy run a few times because his car was dripping water on the track. Running straight water in warm climates, you have to deal with algae/mold crap growing in your IC piping and tank if you don’t drain and dry it all the time too. Personally I’d run a 2” plastic ball valve drain the tank fast and a 5 gallon insulated cooler for a reservoir.
02-03-2016, 09:35 AM
#63
May go without saying, but pay some extra attention when laying out the A2W system initially. Make sure you have super easy access to fill/drain it and a huge lid as mentioned and possibly an insulated Water tank. Nothing against A2W, but I’ve had several buddies that have switched over and absolutely hated it. Draining/refilling in between each round gets old. Constantly sweating water tank, IC, and piping inside the car does as well. Also you need a way to contain that sweating water. (not easy to do with a sheet metal interior) They wouldn’t let my buddy run a few times because his car was dripping water on the track. Running straight water in warm climates, you have to deal with algae/mold crap growing in your IC piping and tank if you don’t drain and dry it all the time too. Personally I’d run a 2” plastic ball valve drain the tank fast and a 5 gallon insulated cooler for a reservoir.
Good call. A lot of these things i have considered. Especially the easy drain. I was hoping to fab up a tank and spray some bed liner or something to insulate it a bit. I have decided to keep the inter cooler up front in the engine bay essentially hooked directly to the turbos and feeding the intake all in a very short distance with minimal piping. The only thing that really Has me worried is the radiator fan will be exhausting the hot air right on to the back side of the inter cooler. Im sure that will only help heat up the water while street driving.
02-03-2016, 09:49 AM
#64
Remember the IC itself is going to have condensation all over it, esp. in a hot engine bay behind a radiator. It will drip quite a bit too. Bad juju to drip water all down the track. Prob better to move the weight as far back as you can and keep it out of the hot engine bay. If you flip your intake 180 up under the dash is a good spot IMO.
02-03-2016, 09:52 AM
#65
Remember the IC itself is going to have condensation all over it, esp. in a hot engine bay behind a radiator. It will drip quite a bit too. Bad juju to drip water all down the track. Prob better to move the weight as far back as you can and keep it out of the hot engine bay. If you flip your intake 180 up under the dash is a good spot IMO.
As much as i would like to do this, I still street drive this car and an A2W in the cab with piping running everywhere is not something i plan on doing. I will look into insulation techniques though, The condensation up front isnt something i really thought about.
02-03-2016, 10:27 AM
#66
9 Second Club
IMO Keep it simple, A2A works, is 100% reliable and requires no maintenance
And air temps could be much improved with the larger turbos alone.
IMO the only real benefit from A2W is if it is a drag car and you intend to use ice. Other than that it just adds weight and complication ( and cost )
And air temps could be much improved with the larger turbos alone.
IMO the only real benefit from A2W is if it is a drag car and you intend to use ice. Other than that it just adds weight and complication ( and cost )
02-03-2016, 11:03 AM
#68
IMO Keep it simple, A2A works, is 100% reliable and requires no maintenance
And air temps could be much improved with the larger turbos alone.
IMO the only real benefit from A2W is if it is a drag car and you intend to use ice. Other than that it just adds weight and complication ( and cost )
And air temps could be much improved with the larger turbos alone.
IMO the only real benefit from A2W is if it is a drag car and you intend to use ice. Other than that it just adds weight and complication ( and cost )
02-03-2016, 11:38 AM
#69
A2W also frees up a ton of space up front, more airflow to the radiator, and is able to shift alot of weight aft for traction. All very big pluses in my book for a street car.
The A2W setups I've seen work as well as the A2A units with no ice while having all the benefits mentioned above. Granted these weren't top of the line Garrett A2A units.
My treadstone A2A was 30lbs. Thats alot to hang off the nose of the car. A much smaller A2W core with a 5 gallons of water tank ballast in the back would be nice IMO.
The A2W setups I've seen work as well as the A2A units with no ice while having all the benefits mentioned above. Granted these weren't top of the line Garrett A2A units.
My treadstone A2A was 30lbs. Thats alot to hang off the nose of the car. A much smaller A2W core with a 5 gallons of water tank ballast in the back would be nice IMO.
02-03-2016, 11:49 AM
#71
A2W also frees up a ton of space up front, more airflow to the radiator, and is able to shift alot of weight aft for traction. All very big pluses in my book for a street car.
The A2W setups I've seen work as well as the A2A units with no ice while having all the benefits mentioned above. Granted these weren't top of the line Garrett A2A units.
My treadstone A2A was 30lbs. Thats alot to hang off the nose of the car. A much smaller A2W core with a 5 gallons of water tank ballast in the back would be nice IMO.
The A2W setups I've seen work as well as the A2A units with no ice while having all the benefits mentioned above. Granted these weren't top of the line Garrett A2A units.
My treadstone A2A was 30lbs. Thats alot to hang off the nose of the car. A much smaller A2W core with a 5 gallons of water tank ballast in the back would be nice IMO.
That's exactly my though process. ZB sent me a link for a cheapo A2W cooler that is working well for him so we will see how it goes.
02-03-2016, 06:23 PM
#72
TECH Fanatic
Yes,
And yes! When is the last time a boost leak test was done? I have seen many, many T netics comp cover leak, and many "beautiful" pipe welds leak as well. You just dont know until you pressure test the system.
Also if possible log pre and post IC boost and IAT figured. You may be surprised what you find.
02-04-2016, 01:34 AM
#74
I've got an entire A2W set up over here I'm not using. Seriously. I know you like to roll around on the street and ****, but even with tap water in it, it would probably work better than what you've got. It's a Precision PT2000, and the tank is a little over 6 gallons with an internal Rule pump. I had the thing plumbed with -16 ****.
Cut you a hell of a deal.
Cut you a hell of a deal.
02-04-2016, 07:42 AM
#77
Originally Posted by Blown06
I've got an entire A2W set up over here I'm not using. Seriously. I know you like to roll around on the street and ****, but even with tap water in it, it would probably work better than what you've got. It's a Precision PT2000, and the tank is a little over 6 gallons with an internal Rule pump. I had the thing plumbed with -16 ****.
Cut you a hell of a deal.
Cut you a hell of a deal.
02-05-2016, 08:59 AM
#79
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another think to consider is a "hybrid" air to air intercooler with "cooling jackets" on the end tanks.
I fabbed this up on front mount intercooler and it would allow me to pump ice cold water into "tank jackets" that provides about a 1/2" of water flow through a jacket I fabbed up on the top and bottom and end tanks. It looked a bit frankenstine but it allowed me to super cool the whole intercooler core with ice cold water rather than spraying it down with cold water between rounds
I did finally take it off the car as the "sweat" dripping off the intercooler on the track became an issue but it worked really well!!
if you fabbed a small "catch tray" this wouldn't be a problem.
air to air is MUCH less hassle on the street and with E85 you might not need air/water as long as you can get IAC close to ambient.
ford fooled around with a "super cooler" that used the ac to chill the "aftercooler" setup (air water intercooler with chilled water) but I don't think that would be worth the hassle either.
good info! good luck with your decision.
I fabbed this up on front mount intercooler and it would allow me to pump ice cold water into "tank jackets" that provides about a 1/2" of water flow through a jacket I fabbed up on the top and bottom and end tanks. It looked a bit frankenstine but it allowed me to super cool the whole intercooler core with ice cold water rather than spraying it down with cold water between rounds
I did finally take it off the car as the "sweat" dripping off the intercooler on the track became an issue but it worked really well!!
if you fabbed a small "catch tray" this wouldn't be a problem.
air to air is MUCH less hassle on the street and with E85 you might not need air/water as long as you can get IAC close to ambient.
ford fooled around with a "super cooler" that used the ac to chill the "aftercooler" setup (air water intercooler with chilled water) but I don't think that would be worth the hassle either.
good info! good luck with your decision.