Naf

iTrader: (1)

I searched online, and i cannot find an answer

I will have a diesel 2500ltr with a hybrid turbo, i want to know if i should go with a 1600cc positive SC or 2300 positive SC...

At WOT i calculated i would need about 700cfm of air into the turbo,

My plan is to run piping from the air filter to an old Whipple/Lysholm side mounted positive SC, then to the turbo, through an intercooler and finally into the engine. I am looking to get 1.3-1.5bar after the turbo. The BOV will go from after the intercooler to after the MAF.

I hope to run 5-10psi from the SC from 1000rpm up, i am gettin the dia of the Crank pulley, which is a heavenly 7-rib. I went onto Lysholm's website and found if i run the 1600cc SC i would need to rev it to 12,000/13,000rpm to get me the 20 m3/min at 1.5, but with the 2300cc SC i would only need to rev the SC about 9250rpm to get the same results.

1. How do i find CFM outputs for said SC at given rpms,
2. Will i run into starvation issues with the Turbo at speed?
3. Do i run a boost activated Air By-pass between the MAF and the turbo?
3-A Are there electromagnetic clutch kits i could use to turn the SC off once the bypass is open? I know Mercedes make them for their kits, but i dont think i would be able to do the same for my application

Let me know your thoughts, i know this is a diesel app, and not gas, but the idea is the same.

Thank you for your time

Krom

A positive displacement blower, should move the same amount of air for every turn of the input shaft. Without doing any research at all, I ASSUME that the 1600cc blower would move 1600 cc/rev. so at 1000 rpm that would be 1600000 cc/min or 56.5 cfm

edit, I went to the website...
from the lysholm website:
LYS 1600 AX Displacement 1.6l/rev (0.0565 CF/rev)
LYS 2300 AX Displacement 2.3l/rev (0.0812 CF/rev)

The chart shows it will take 25 kw, or 34 hp to turn the 1.6 12,000/13,000rpm to get 20 m3/min at 1.5

you could probably just run an AC compressor clutch, or could definitely run a lawn mower clutch to engage/disengage the blower

Unless you really need the extra boost at low RPM it seem to me it would be pretty easy to hit your goals with a single turbo

Naf

iTrader: (1)

Krom

I am runnin a larger than stock hybrid turbo, but to reduce the lag and even black smoke i would like to run the sc to give me a flatter power curve.

I see i would need to spin the 1600 2.5/rpm and the 2300 1.8/rpm in order to keep up with my turbo demands.

I dont need to boost the pressure feedin the turbo from midway to upper rpm, just need to give the engine a little boost from idle to about 2500rpm so the the power curve is sooner and flatter.

Perks of twin chargin is the benefits of both worlds with no trade offs

stevieturbo

If you're going to fit a blower like that, why even bother with the turbo at all ?

Naf

iTrader: (1)

You are right, i am lookin at this all wrong...

I should be lookin for my weakiest point and fill that void till my turbo is able to pick up the slack, and not worry about when the Turbo is working at full tilt...

I took the same idea of a side mounted positive compressor, with with a electromagnet clutch, for an engine of my size and found on the net that the Mercedes KOMPRESSOR, is the head unit i should search for, and the M45/M62 are the weapons of choice.

They are both for 2-3/2-4ltr engines, come with electronic clutchs, and are still compact for side mounted installation.

I will find a Bypass valve, and a controller, which i will control the initial opening and fully open parameters. This way i could get that initial kick i want and bleed it off for the Turbo to carry me further.

Looks like i need a quick ride to the junk yard to search for this head unit, and negotiate the guy to a more affordable price. which is going to be less than half of what i would have spent on the 1600/2300 units. Even re-manufactured, and ported its $750 for the M62...

chuntington101

How much power are you looking to make? Have you considered compound turbos? Much more popular on diesels but tend to be used for high boost applications.

Is there not a VNT / VGT that you could use that would give decent low end performance? Would be simpler with a single turbo than 2 or a supercharger.

If you really wanted to run a turbo and SC then it might be worth looking at compound boosting (turbo feeding SC) and then bypassing the blower as the boost builds up.

The other way is to do as VW did with their 1.4tfsi engine and have the supercharger feeding the turbo. Once upto speed the SC would be bypassed to alllow the turbo to breath. The SC was then disengaged. I know of a company in the U.K. Doing this for the Evo and itsall about getting the timings right for when you disengage the SC. The advantage of his solution is it keeps intercooling simple and, compared to compound, puts less stress (thermal) on the supercharger.

Naf

iTrader: (1)

I am only looking to increase the lower to mid rpm power band, I feel making more than 250hp at the wheels with the TD5 is askin for trouble. I will be over 400lbft of torque as well.

That's a leap from the stock output of 120hp and 220lbft

The VW/mercedes Kompressor approach is what i hope to copy with my project, i just need to find the space to plug it all in...Having the SC before the turbo and splicing in a Bypass would allow the best of both worlds, so i get to boost quicker and stay their longer.

That small gap on the drivers side of the engine is for the AC compressor. It has to go beside that...

stevieturbo

From the first post it almost came across like you were trying to make some power !! 250hp is very low these days. Even a simple OEM 2.0 tdi with VNT turbo can easily achieve that and spool fast

To even contemplate a twin charge setup for such low power and on what are low revving engines anyway.....is just daft. Do one or the other.

Naf

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, i am goin from 120 fwhp to 250rwhp.

Its a large jump, especially given i have a heavy rig to move around.

Its the defender 130 series. Basically an avalanche with a 2.5ltr diesel engine.

stevieturbo

Exactly, low powered these days. Just because it seems like a large jump...doesnt get around the fact it's still a low number. There is absolutely no need to run two compressors on such an engine, even more so when they also operate over a small rpm band compared to a petrol engine.

Find a suitably sized supercharger and just install that, or install a good VNT turbo and have it tuned etc, there are places that supply kits

http://www.chesterfielddiagnostics.c...packages-kits/

search brings this old thread up too

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=703651

http://www.alivetuning.com/product/b...turbo-for-td5/

Naf

iTrader: (1)

I bought the billet version from alive tuning, along with the ultimate intercooler.

I found my answer and thank you all for the help.

chuntington101

The VW / Audi guys are using modded 2260 turbos to make around 350 crank HP. This is on the 3.0 Ltd Audi plants as well.