stevieturbo

Looking into a custom chargecooler for an 04 GTO. It will be for either a T-Trim or YSi blown car, with core mounted on top of engine, blowing in one side, and out the other to the TB.

Think this route will be easier than trying to fit and plumb up a FMIC.

Here is a rough sketch. Cant go any thicker with the core, unless we remove the suspension strut brace, which we dont really want to do....( unless we combine it into the chargecooler core ?? )


Would anyone have any info as to whether this core would be big enough, for say 650-700rwhp ??

We will be fitting a Snow meth kit too.

Is it big enough to flow without a huge restriction ?

Skunkworks

Bell intercooler would be a good resource. Given your core size desired HP should be no problem. Is this a A2A or A2W core? They have different fin ratios.

Don’t forget high flow pump as this will reduce delta T and increase capacity.

stevieturbo

As indicated on drawing and title... Air 2 Water.

We will source a good pump and front water rad core too, if we do decide to go down this road.

DeltaT

iTrader: (5)

Can you show it with the water tanks also, or label them? I'm not seeing the entire picture. Remember, in A2A, the hot air goes through the thinner channels. In A2W, water goes through the thinner channels and the hot air flows through the wider channels that would have had ambient airflow on an A2A.

Jim

stevieturbo

Why do people keep mentioning A2A when it clearly states A2W ??

Air path is clearly marked in and out, with an arrow pointing airflow direction through the core. ( right to left )

Water jacket surrounds the central core which the air travels through, which is in yellow.
Air and tanks are grey with inlet and outlet clearly marked.

To borrow pics of another guys chargecooler, I would like similar to this, except with water inlet and outlet ( in blue on my drawing ) at the front, rather than the top where there would be no space.

xssive

iTrader: (123)

SO you can only have a max height of 3.125"? That means the actualy core can only be like 2" thick since you need to allow height for the water tanks on eather side of it for flow. It looks to be about as effective as a Magnuson intercooler on ls1's

stevieturbo

Correct, which is why I am asking. Although I imagine 13" long aiflow path is slightly larger than what is available with the Maggie, but obviously the small core size could pose a big restriction to airflow.

If the strut brace was removed, it could up to 4" thick.

DeltaT

iTrader: (5)

If you read my reply, you'll see I am talking about your A2W and just wanted some clarification about the WATER inlet and outlet. Can't help if I don't understand your setup.

I still don't see how you are going to set up your water tanks and flow.

In these two pix you can see how they use a divided water tank on one end and a turnaround tank on the other:





Where this one has a flow through tank:



Trying to understand how you plan to build this - core orientation, water flow, etc.

Jim

Skunkworks

Really it comes down to resonance time or how much time charge air spends going across fins/core. In the first sketch core looks to be 3” tick. It’s about velocity! Most good cores have 10 ms+ resonance time. Also with Maggie heat soak is made worse by thermal transfer from heads to unit its self.

stevieturbo

It could be built, as per either of the 2nd 2 pictures you show, although boosted air path is as per 2nd picture.

Water flow on my diag was highlighted with the blue hose bits on the front of the core. These could be mounted both on front for a 2 pass coolant flow, or front and rear for a single pass coolant flow, which may be easier.

DeltaT

iTrader: (5)

I think your core frontal area will be too small and restrictive for a hi-boost V8. I believe the Pace Products IC you show is for a much smaller motor, like a Subaru or an Escort RS Turbo. You need air tanks that flare to a wider core, like the 2nd diagram. A2A would probably be easier and there are people that have already done it so you could get specific tips. The last thing you want is an IC that's too small to do the job after you've spent all that time and money.

Jim

GrahamHill

iTrader: (6)

Those cars have a strut front end? Or did you guys convert it?

stevieturbo

@ Delta T...

The chargecooler pictured is actually used on a Procharged SBC which made 680bhp on an engine Dyno at 17.9psi blowing through a carburettor.
Pace specced and built the core based on the D1SC's airflow ability of 1400cfm, so I can only assume it is suitably sized for him.
It would tbe thicker than I propose, but smaller in every other dimension.

@ GrahamHill.

A Holden Monaro/04 Pontiac GTO uses Machperson strut type suspension. Perhaps terminology differences across the mond are make you think of something else ??

DeltaT

iTrader: (5)

I would like to see psi readings before and after the IC on that setup. 680bhp at 18# is not that high. I suspect you will have a pressure drop of 3-6 pounds which is excessive. Hate to see your engine do work then waste it (through pressure loss). An option for you might be to get Corky Bell's excellent book "Supercharged!". It shows how to calculate core frontal area (the total size of the openings in the face of the IC that the incoming hot air will see) and other critical dimensions.

If you figure that roughly 55% of the frontal area of a A2W is available for the hot air to flow through, based on your drawing, your core frontal area (3.125"Tall X 13.75"Wide X .55 = 23.6 square inches). Most A2W cores are simply A2A cores with water flowing through the channels that on an A2A would normally carry the hot air. But from the drawing and the Pace picture you show, it looks as though they are running the charge air through the thinner channels just like the A2A, and running water through the wider channels (that on an A2A would normally have the cooling or ambient air running through). If this is true, the calculation above would be different: 3.125T X 13.75W x .45 = 19.3 square inches. Plus you'd only have maybe 14-16 channels total for the air to flow through. Internal flow area, if the core is oriented like I'm thinking, would be in the range of:

Internal flow are = Length of channels (in this case height = 3.125)
times Width of channels (that the air will flow through) probably 5/16" = .31"
times Number of Channels (Estimate 14-16 based on your width) = 14-16

Gives you an internal flow area range of:

High-end: (3.125" X .31" X 16channels = 15.5 square inches)
Low-end: (3.125" X .31" X 14channels = 13.6 square inches)

I believe this will be restrictive and unsatisfying. I could be wrong - check my figures and assumptions.

Jim