help buid up for FI!
04-12-2006, 01:41 AM
#1
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help buid up for FI! hey guys im a newbie and i was just wondering what forged internals i need? should i get a forged block? money is tight so i dont want to go out and buy a short block, so im going to build it. will the stock crank and stock rods hold up? or do i need to go forged? and if so what are some part numbers? and what pistons are yall running to get the compression down? what head bolts? what heads? i see a lot of people running the ls6 heads, but guys i need hekp quick! and if possible list the place and and the part numbers i can find these parts at. thanks
04-12-2006, 07:58 AM
#4
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What are your plans, i.e. rwhp, boost and so forth.
I've been considering what's the best approach for FI and IMO unless you have plenty of spare money this is how I would do it.
Assuming the rest of the car (chassis, suspension, etc.) are upto spec. I would simply buy a kit that had the potential for what I eventually want 550-650rwhp.
Then just slap it on with the supporting bolt ons and fuel requirements and run a lesser setup until it goes bang. While you are having some fun with it (probably 7-10psi and 450-500rwhp area, setup dependant) you can save up and build yourself a replacement engine.
I like the idea of a fully built 402ci (aluminium block) or 408ci (cast iron block) setup with a CR nearer 9-9.5:1 and forged internals. Using a sensible blower cam and some good heads. when it's finished simply swap it in and if the old 346ci is still in working order sell it.
I don't see the point in spending $$$ now for forged stock displacement internals when you may get a year or two + out of the stock items with a good tune and sensible setup.
All you need to do is make sure whatever FI kit you get can support your future mods easily enough.
If your plans are for 700+rwhp then there really is no cheap option, you need to do it right or end up re-doing things over and over.
I've been considering what's the best approach for FI and IMO unless you have plenty of spare money this is how I would do it.
Assuming the rest of the car (chassis, suspension, etc.) are upto spec. I would simply buy a kit that had the potential for what I eventually want 550-650rwhp.
Then just slap it on with the supporting bolt ons and fuel requirements and run a lesser setup until it goes bang. While you are having some fun with it (probably 7-10psi and 450-500rwhp area, setup dependant) you can save up and build yourself a replacement engine.
I like the idea of a fully built 402ci (aluminium block) or 408ci (cast iron block) setup with a CR nearer 9-9.5:1 and forged internals. Using a sensible blower cam and some good heads. when it's finished simply swap it in and if the old 346ci is still in working order sell it.
I don't see the point in spending $$$ now for forged stock displacement internals when you may get a year or two + out of the stock items with a good tune and sensible setup.
All you need to do is make sure whatever FI kit you get can support your future mods easily enough.
If your plans are for 700+rwhp then there really is no cheap option, you need to do it right or end up re-doing things over and over.
04-12-2006, 09:32 AM
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im going to build a turbo set up this summer and ill probably go with the forged pistons and connecting rods. what kind of pistons should i run? and what heads? thats what i really need to know? and will the stock block hold up?
04-12-2006, 09:40 AM
#6
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Well yes, no and maybe are all the answer.
Which turbo kit, how much boost and what sort of level rwhp are you aiming at. A Totally STOCK long block with the correct fuel mods and a tune will be fine on ~7psi as a rule and offer a genuine 430+rwhp.
Again stock heads will work, but you can easily spend $2500+ on heads, so are you planning on spending this much money?
Generally speaking performance costs money and in order to play you have to pay.
If all the mods you have are listed in your sig then it would be so easy to spend $20,000 on doing a turbo/blower kit with all the other sensible and needed parts. Yet if you plan carefully and accept certain limitations you should be able to do it for a lot less.
I had a look at doing this, but for the cost of swapping the internals it's almost worth saving a little more and just getting a 402 or 408ci short/long block and using this engine to finish off the build or sell it to raise some money to cover some of the costs of the new one.
Which turbo kit, how much boost and what sort of level rwhp are you aiming at. A Totally STOCK long block with the correct fuel mods and a tune will be fine on ~7psi as a rule and offer a genuine 430+rwhp.
Again stock heads will work, but you can easily spend $2500+ on heads, so are you planning on spending this much money?
Generally speaking performance costs money and in order to play you have to pay.
If all the mods you have are listed in your sig then it would be so easy to spend $20,000 on doing a turbo/blower kit with all the other sensible and needed parts. Yet if you plan carefully and accept certain limitations you should be able to do it for a lot less.
I had a look at doing this, but for the cost of swapping the internals it's almost worth saving a little more and just getting a 402 or 408ci short/long block and using this engine to finish off the build or sell it to raise some money to cover some of the costs of the new one.
04-12-2006, 09:57 AM
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I'm still building mine too so I'll pass along what I've found.
Stock crank is fine for close to 900hp. Just get some ARP/Katech rod bolts and forged pistons. You can also get a set of either 317 or 853 heads (big chamber). Your choice on comp ratio..8.5 to 9.5 will work, just depends on how much boost you plan to run. Get the right fuel system to support you HP goals (injectors, TB, fuel pump and filter). Truck manifolds will work just fine. No need to spend big dollars on turbo headers. Some guy are pushing close to 1000hp with manifolds.
Stock crank is fine for close to 900hp. Just get some ARP/Katech rod bolts and forged pistons. You can also get a set of either 317 or 853 heads (big chamber). Your choice on comp ratio..8.5 to 9.5 will work, just depends on how much boost you plan to run. Get the right fuel system to support you HP goals (injectors, TB, fuel pump and filter). Truck manifolds will work just fine. No need to spend big dollars on turbo headers. Some guy are pushing close to 1000hp with manifolds.
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04-12-2006, 10:18 AM
#8
From reading also this seems to be the deal. Stock cranks are good for big power .Hearing no stories about breaking stock cranks.Only reason to go forged it sounds like for crank is stroker reasons.
Rods are also plenty strong. Rod bolts are weak link.
Forged rods are still ok idea but the forged pistons are key. There are a lot of forged pistons that look like they work well,wiseco, ross, diamond,mahle to name a few.
And of course some good mls head gaskets the gm are supposed to be fine and some nice arp head studs.
I am going for a bit of overkill though and figure can sell my current ls1 engine for decent bucks and build a 6.0 iron up for not much more really if do the final assembly,and engine r and r myself. Just let my machinist screw together the bottom end for me.
But I might cheap out and use the stock 6.0 crank, I would upgrage the pistons and rods as just feel more comfortable with forged rods and the factory pistons are very poor for forced induction use.They can work but you don't have much margin for error.
Rods are also plenty strong. Rod bolts are weak link.
Forged rods are still ok idea but the forged pistons are key. There are a lot of forged pistons that look like they work well,wiseco, ross, diamond,mahle to name a few.
And of course some good mls head gaskets the gm are supposed to be fine and some nice arp head studs.
I am going for a bit of overkill though and figure can sell my current ls1 engine for decent bucks and build a 6.0 iron up for not much more really if do the final assembly,and engine r and r myself. Just let my machinist screw together the bottom end for me.
But I might cheap out and use the stock 6.0 crank, I would upgrage the pistons and rods as just feel more comfortable with forged rods and the factory pistons are very poor for forced induction use.They can work but you don't have much margin for error.
04-12-2006, 10:49 AM
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my sig is very old just a daily driver, but im looking to use the truck manifolds and bye some hot parts from someone. but ill prolly try to get the h.p. up to like 575 or something like that. for forced induction what top is the best on a piston (dish, flat, or dome top) and the rod bolts i could just get some from a sponsor on this site or what?and the heads just some stock heads or ls6 heads, not ported? im confused
