MertezWS6

iTrader: (8)

Is there anyone out there that can give me some tips, I ordered aeromotive 340 11169 fuel pump and I already had hotwire kit. After doing some research heard about upgrading the bulkhead connector at the pump itself cause terminals are to small and cause problems for the draw it needs. I'm expecting 550-600 crank HP and wondering if this is overkill and if I should just get a pump that fits better without cutting bucket and keeping stock venturi system? anyone have this pump if you could give me some feedback or tips it would be appreciated.
Thanks for looking

kyoytey1693

iTrader: (7)

I've been trying to find some solid info on this as well. I have read post from racetronics saying this pump wont work due the fact that it supplies too much pressure and needs a return line.

I found the original thread from aeromotive when these came out and it seems to elude that it can work for the fbody's but no real specifics.

Hopefully someone can put it in simple terms.

69MyWay

iTrader: (2)

I just put on (the 11140) in my 69 Camaro LS1 swap car. I actually modified a tank from a 96 Impala so that I can use a stock style pump and fittings to the LS engine. It has the same bulk head issues (smaller pins and wires at that point).

It has a head/cam/FAST 102/36# inj/2800 stall/1.75 primary long tubes.

I had a walbro 255 that failed while out on the road. I replaced it with a stock pump from Autozone to get back on the road...then I forgot about that. I had it as Speedinc this last week for some dyno tune and the car was trailing off lean on WOT runs. Then it dawned on me - I had the stock pressure pump in that tank.

Now that you have the back ground - I spent way too much time this last Saturday putting in the 340. This is all Speed Inc sells now as they no longer carry the 255s.

A couple of issues. The wires on the PUMP are NOT 10 gauge. From the pump to the bulkhead they are what appears to be 12 or 14. I find this unusual since they require 10 gauge everywhere else. Also, the bulkhead itself isn't something you just modify - it is a sealed piece. So, I cut the connector as short as possible to join my 10 gauge leads. My battery is in the trunk so it was fairly easy to get a direct power source for the power and ground to a 40 amp relay at that point.

Here is the big issue - and perhaps it should be a seperage thread. The factory Aermotive connector at the pump was no good. After I had put all this in and went to power it up the pump wouldn't run. I spent hours double checking all of my stuff only to find that there was no continuity from the bulkhead connector plug to the motor plug. When I pulled it all apart I found that the factory didn't properly crimp the power lead on. It was slid too far foward and the metal part of the wire wasn't touching the metal part of the female plug by an angel's breath. I am soooooo lucky this didn't arc in the tank!

So, I went through and not only stripped and re-crimped but also soldered these in.

Bottom line - It now runs (and it has a return on a 99-04 Corvette filter/regualtor) but I too am curious what good all this fat wire does when the wires in the TANK connector from Aeromotive are not 10 gauge...and the bulkhead narrows down.

I re-dyno on the 30th so I'm hoping we are good to go now.

69MyWay

iTrader: (2)

By the way - I just went old school and picked up the phone and called them. Great folks in the tech department.

A couple of things:

1. I made them aware of the bad connector. They were receptive to that info

2. The bulk head - isn't a big deal - nor is the size of their wire in the pump. As you will note they are not cooper wires supplied with the pump for in the tank. Also, since it is such a short distance through the bulkhead - there's no worry there.

kyoytey1693

iTrader: (7)

Interesting... So, in your experience a bulkhead change isn't necessary? And you aren't having issues with it upping fuel pressure too much?

You kinda lost me on this part "Bottom line - It now runs (and it has a return on a 99-04 Corvette filter/regualtor)". Is that how you are keeping the pressure where it needs to be?

69MyWay

iTrader: (2)

Yes, and let me be clear. I added thoughts to this thread but under the pretense that it isn't a 5th gen F body tank/pump - but is the same brand, style, and issue to some degree as the orignal poster.

With that said - the new pump is not causing the pressure to exceed the set limit by the regulator. One of the most popular ways to install an LS in a non-original LS car is to use the Corvette 1999-2004 fuel pressure regulator/filter. It is an all in one filter/regulator. The regulator doesn't care if it is a stock, 255...or 340 GPH pump in terms of maximum maintained pressure. The difference is that when the injectors dump - the higher volume/pressure units will continue to keep the pressure and volumn strong and hard at the rail where the other's may bleed off.

The bulkhead is a non-issue in so much as Aeromotive is concerned. The trick is to get your 10 gauge wire as close as possible to the leads coming from the bulkhead to reduce the amount of smaller wire - however, the main issue is the DISTANCE that the power has to travel over a smaller wire. That is why they want the 10 gauge wire because there is an assumption the power source may be a long way from the pump.

Make sense?

Racetronix

iTrader: (2)

Facts:

• Delphi changed the bulkhead connector in their modules from a 150-series to a 280-series type b/c if chronic failures. The 150-series terminals are rated at 14-amps max. at room temp This rating goes down with temp and age. The 280-series terminals are rated at 28-amps. 340LPH pumps typically draw 12-14 amps @ 58PSI @ 13.5V which places this wiring/terminals right at their upper current limits.
  
• When using a Walbro 255LPH pump a pressure rise will occur with the factory regulator configuration. This is b/c the regulator and return flow path is too small/restrictive to handle the pump's flow. Typical pressure at part throttle/idle will be 60-63 PSI vs. the factory set 58PSI. The pressure may drop once the pump/fuel warms up and the vehicle voltage drops. This pressure rise is not as pronounced without a hotwire kit b/c the voltage drop in the factory harness will reduce pump flow/performance.
  
• Running a 340LPH pump with the factory return system may cause premature pump failure b/c of excessive head pressures created. In-house testing here has proven this and that is why we have not offered a F99 340LPH solution yet. Once we are able to offer a complete system which eliminates this restriction we will.
  

We are not sure who you spoke to at Aeromotive but Brett there is aware of these issues.

69MyWay

iTrader: (2)

You can see the larger pin in that 250 series for sure.

Interesting enough my pressure is right at 58 with this pump as well as the stock replacement that had been in there.

I like your products and prices. Too bad it wasn't on the shelf at the vendor I am working with.

Racetronix

iTrader: (2)

Then you have something that was limiting the fuel pump volume or it was bleeding off. Either way 340LPH is much more than the factory F99 reg and return channels can support.

69MyWay

iTrader: (2)

I'm running the delco 99-04 Corvette filter/regulator.

kyoytey1693

iTrader: (7)

Thanks 69myway! You cleared up a lot of questions for me. I think I have read just about every post on this forum that contained anything about those 340 pumps and there is very little clarity in them.

Usually racetronix jumps in and gives a 1 or 2 sentence answer that basically tells you "you cant do that" and give very little detail. Which is usually followed by lonnies jumping in with his twin pumps and to give him a call. Not a lot of detail on his end either but definitely more that racetronix.

I'm sure that last paragraph just offended a few people. It's not intended that way at all. I think both lonnies and racetronix offer some great products. But just as racetronix mentioned in the last post a 340 is exactly what a lot of us need. Not a twin 255. But I get the feeling from many of your posts (racetronix and lonnies) that you just want to sell parts. You dont offer a lot of technical advice and you seem to be pretty short and condescending in most of your responses (talking about racetronix there). I know that you guys know more about this stuff than most of us and you get frustated when we try to step outside of the box for idea or save a little money. Maybe it's because we dont have enough education....

I'll give a good example of a sponsor. Sam Strano. This guy will educate you about shock, bushings, springs, suspension, whatever, until the keys fall off his keyboard. Sure he gets on peoples *** sometimes but thats only after they have questioned him or talked about something they had no business and no knowledge of.

My point is, if you guys would take the time to offer some education to your client base and lost a little but of the attitude in responses we might all start doing things a little more your way.

Sorry for the rant and the post hack. Hope this helps people in the future.

69MyWay

iTrader: (2)

Happy to share my been there done that experience.

Please know that I JUST put this thing in and will know for sure on the 30th when we re-dyno the car and...over the long haul.

Let me say one thing that Racetronix brought up. He said that I would experience pressure bleed. I wasn't seeing any until.......

Very odd - after getting it in and testing it (I let it run in the shop for a long time) - I never saw it over 58 PSI. Car was on a 1/4 tank and I plan on driving it the rest of this week to work out other bugs before headed back to Speedinc for the re-tune.

Anyway, just headed down for some 93 octane and noticed when I started it this afternoon I'm sitting on 61 psi. I just drove about 8 miles and it stayed steady right at 60-61. SO....it is bleeding up to a higher PSI. I also have an Autometer fuel pressure gauge with the sensor on the rail. I've had all sorts of trouble out of this gauge over the years and JUST had to replace the sending unit as the last one dropped dead. I honestly don't know how well I trust the gauge either to be 100% accurate. I mainly installed it for trouble shooting in the event of a total pump failure I'd know without having to pop the hood.

I will call Speedinc and see what their thoughts are regarding this for tuning...etc.

I realize that ANY pump that is upped like this will not last as long as a stock unit. The POJ Walbro 255 that was in there didn't last long either - but who knows...maybe it was from running it on stock fuel pump wiring through the small bulkhead. We could opine all day long. What matters is if it will tune this time without any lean issues...and go down the road a few thousand more trouble free miles.

kyoytey1693

iTrader: (7)

Keep us posted. I think I want to go this route myself of it can maintain fuel pressure. Are there any drawbacks to the fuel pressure raising slightly at idle? What issues does it cause?

69MyWay

iTrader: (2)

I am seeing it at 61 at idle and on wot romps. I suspect long term life of the reg and pump and tuning issues. Lets see what the tuner says about it and I will let you know. I suspect few people really know their pressure anyway since full time gauges mounted to the rail aren't always installed.

Racetronix

iTrader: (2)

If you do a search for threads we posted close to 10 years ago, you will see that there are many threads where we went into detail. Check www.corvetteforum.com as well. We have found that forum gurus all too often like to argue about technical facts. This has become increasingly frustrating and futile. This is a common beef with vendors on forums and it is one of the top contributing factors to why more often than not we tend to abstain from commenting on posts unless they specifically involve our products. Then there are the trolls who hold grudges and target vendors repeatedly b/c of some beef they had but they only tell half the story. Remember, with a vendor it is guilty until proven innocent so after a while, the resources it takes to police and deal with these handful of people online is better off spent supporting the 1000's of customers we can satisfy. It is a tradeoff. We speak with hundreds of our dealers every year and the best way to describe a vendor's view of today's forums is a 'minefield'. It is a love and hate relationship.

If you check around you will find that many of the top tier manufacturer’s who sponsor this forum focus on advertising and limit the amount of technical information they post for these and many other reasons.

One thing you will notice about our posts is that we do not pull any punches or walk on glass when it comes to forum ‘issues’. At times, this has offended some people but at least we do not sugar coat anything and do not dance around issues for the sake of being politically correct. You will always know where we stand like it or not.

Racetronix

iTrader: (2)

This is why your pressure-rise is not as pronounced as it would be with the 99-02 regulator/return system. The ID of the ports are larger on the C5 return system.

Racetronix

iTrader: (2)

This is common. Tuners have been tuning around this for close to 10 years now using our F99 system.

Autometer pressure sensors are known to have issues with heat. This problem is more pronounced when the sensor mounted on the rail above the engine. It is best to run a quality liquid-filled mechanical gauge.

69MyWay

iTrader: (2)

Drove it this morning about 40 minutes continuous. Pressure was around 61-62 or so cold and by the end of the ride it was steady from 60-61.

I called the tuner and they said that isn't a problem and that is what they expect with the higher pressure pump.

So tuning to it won't be an issue - but as time goes on I would assume the extra thumping against the regulator will press it out.

kyoytey1693

iTrader: (7)

Cool. So it sounds like a fairly easy scenario to tune around and the downside is possible premature pump/regulator failure. I will be interested in your results after the tune 69 and longevity at some point.

Racetronix, thanks for acknowledging my post and responding without taking offense. I get where you are coming from and I see your point on the few bad apples that make this a challenge. I really do appreciate it when someone with authority on a subject goes into detail. I hate it when it sounds like a plug for advertising or sales. I like to know the why behind what makes a sponsor or product superior but you explanation clears things up a lot.

I know you cant please everyone but I do appreciate the response and advice you do offer, when you do.

69MyWay

iTrader: (2)

I am going to try one more thing before the tune next week. Speedinc prefers the WIX Corvette filter/reglator. Right now I have a new GM/Delco one on there. Racetronix noted these generally have a larger return port at least - but I am seeing the pressure moving around (per the gauge which I don't 100% trust).

I took two videos you will see below. The first one is with the car dead cold backing out of the shop in the morning. The second it with it after about 40 minutes of running. You can see the gauge readings for yourself. I will put the WIX in there this afternoon then repeat and see if ANYTHING changes.