MAF deleate
04-04-2009, 10:10 PM
#1
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MAF deleate ive seen people have the MAF deleated out of the car, what are the advantages of doing this? i am assuming that this is tuned out? and can i do this with my car cammed?
04-04-2009, 11:33 PM
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Have the MAF deleted? WoW thats a new one on me. Theres a thing called a speed density tune where everything is based off manifold pressure and intake air temps but its mainly for a race car setup unless ur an idiot. Ive heard of guys tuning out the o2 sensors in the exhaust and running a closed loop setup, but that still uses the MAF i believe. That too is kinda stupid cause it kills your gas mileage and spark plugs - your always gonna run rich or lean at anything other than WOT. Why on earth would u want to take away your cars main information source for A/F ratio, be it MAF or o2 sensors? Unless u have a wideband theres no other way to even estimate it. Thats how an electronric fuel injected car works man. Sensors like the MAF tell the engine how much spark and fuel to combine with the air the MAF tells it how much air that is. o2 sensors tell it what the end result was. This should be in the tuning section.
04-07-2009, 10:49 AM
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Have the MAF deleted? WoW thats a new one on me. Theres a thing called a speed density tune where everything is based off manifold pressure and intake air temps but its mainly for a race car setup unless ur an idiot. Ive heard of guys tuning out the o2 sensors in the exhaust and running a closed loop setup, but that still uses the MAF i believe. That too is kinda stupid cause it kills your gas mileage and spark plugs - your always gonna run rich or lean at anything other than WOT. Why on earth would u want to take away your cars main information source for A/F ratio, be it MAF or o2 sensors? Unless u have a wideband theres no other way to even estimate it. Thats how an electronric fuel injected car works man. Sensors like the MAF tell the engine how much spark and fuel to combine with the air the MAF tells it how much air that is. o2 sensors tell it what the end result was. This should be in the tuning section.
Similarly to removing the O2's with a uncatted car, there will always be a threat of the O2's learning out the tuning, then your car starts running rich and runs like ****. If the O2's are tuned out and run closed loop, there is no threat of the tuning ever changing.
I would not discount closed loop or SD tuning so easily.
Exactly, if you are not maxing out the MAF, don' get rid of it.
04-07-2009, 10:59 AM
#5
Have the MAF deleted? WoW thats a new one on me. Theres a thing called a speed density tune where everything is based off manifold pressure and intake air temps but its mainly for a race car setup unless ur an idiot. Ive heard of guys tuning out the o2 sensors in the exhaust and running a closed loop setup, but that still uses the MAF i believe. That too is kinda stupid cause it kills your gas mileage and spark plugs - your always gonna run rich or lean at anything other than WOT. Why on earth would u want to take away your cars main information source for A/F ratio, be it MAF or o2 sensors? Unless u have a wideband theres no other way to even estimate it. Thats how an electronric fuel injected car works man. Sensors like the MAF tell the engine how much spark and fuel to combine with the air the MAF tells it how much air that is. o2 sensors tell it what the end result was. This should be in the tuning section.
i dont know much about how it works but no several cars running speed density year round and the cars run great, but ill let someone smarter then me tell you. here is a quote from a local guy that does his own tuning:"A SD tune will account for any temp changes. This is an old myth that gets passed around. Your IAT, MAP, and ECT sensor account for any temperature changes as well as pressure changes with the weather. I run a SD tune year round and my fueling never requires changes. The advantage of a MAF is you have a direct, but slower, means of measuring the air intake. SD is an instant calculation your not waiting for a wire to cool off so the fueling is there instantly instead of waiting for the MAF to catch up.
Advantage to the SD tune is your car will be more snappy with accelerating (since the fueling is almost instant) especially if it is a 6 speed. Downfall is the SD tune will not account for any compression loss due to wear and tear but it'll take a **** tone of miles for it to matter. Disadvantage is it's harder to get down so fueling is perfect. MAF will account for the compression loss but will be less snappy feeling but easier to tune."
If you had an SD tune then yes you could run a MAFless car and im sure it would flow better being a direct shot from lid to intake and look cleaner under the hood. I highlighted the only downfall but like he said a ton of miles to matter, and i would guess for just about anybody on this board you are gonna add more mods and be back for a tune before you have put too many miles on the car or you dont put many miles on it. I only added 15k miles to mine in 3 years...just my .02
Last edited by jrob56; 04-07-2009 at 11:04 AM.
04-07-2009, 01:02 PM
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I have my car set up to run only on speed density, and I have not had a single problem with it. It allows for a larger intake pipe so I figured "why not." I drive the car year round in all kinds of weather. I dynoed the car in the summer and the winter and the wideband readings were right on track regardless of the outside temp. and humidity. Besides, there are a lot of cars out there that run only speed density from the factory...
-John
-John
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04-07-2009, 04:26 PM
#9
No. Be happy with your MAF. A MAF tune is also very easy and a full dyno / street tune can be done in a half day and cost about $400 or so. A good SD tune will take a few DAYS and cost twice as much easily. Like I said, unless you are maxing out your MAF, don't bother with SD.
04-07-2009, 05:35 PM
#10
Do what your tuner wants you to do. If your tuner says he cant make it run good without it then dont go without it. Just because a tuner on LS1teh knows how to make an SD tune run well for a Daily Driver doesnt mean that all of the know. Decide who is going to tune your car then ask them.
04-07-2009, 06:31 PM
#11
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My tuner said he could make more power with an SD tune and that the car would be more drivable with a big cam. But thats just his .02 And it runs great, hauls ***, and is ready for a new clutch!
04-07-2009, 10:38 PM
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ive never heard of a speed density tune being race only or idiotic to do...
i guess my beater 94 saturn sc1 with a 1.9 liter soch that makes 87 horsepower and is completely speed density tuned and MAFless from the factory is a race car. **** im putting a wing on it now!!
i guess my beater 94 saturn sc1 with a 1.9 liter soch that makes 87 horsepower and is completely speed density tuned and MAFless from the factory is a race car. **** im putting a wing on it now!!
04-08-2009, 02:44 AM
#14
I can see how people look at SD tunes as race only. Some people think that running no cats on a car that is not a street car is dumb too. Some people think that putting big cams in a daily driver is retarted. It is all based on opinion of what you think should be tolerable and reliable for your car. obviously MAF and cats stabalise an engine, but others are willing to take the risk. You've got to be open minded and make your wn desicion. No one is dumb because they dont agree with your opinion.
04-08-2009, 01:06 PM
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There are a number of reasons to do either... the choice is really up to you. I got rid of mine to help clean up my engine bay, to allow me to run a larger cold air intake pipe, and because a friend of mine already had a very similar tune on his car with the MAF deleted. All he had to do was load his tune on my ECM and fine tune it a little. It may be more cost effective to keep the MAF for your application if it will require more time to tune the car by removing it, and for the most part I doubt you will see any real power differences either way.
good luck, and I hope this helps,
-John
good luck, and I hope this helps,
-John
04-08-2009, 05:51 PM
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ive never heard of a speed density tune being race only or idiotic to do...
i guess my beater 94 saturn sc1 with a 1.9 liter soch that makes 87 horsepower and is completely speed density tuned and MAFless from the factory is a race car. **** im putting a wing on it now!!
i guess my beater 94 saturn sc1 with a 1.9 liter soch that makes 87 horsepower and is completely speed density tuned and MAFless from the factory is a race car. **** im putting a wing on it now!!
and i am going to talk to my tuner and see what is possible... he is a member on here
