E85 on N/A HCI LQ9
09-05-2015, 02:32 PM
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E85 on N/A HCI LQ9 Ok here's the deal...my n/a timing is at 26 degrees, but the car makes more power with more timing, but it knocks at 28 degrees. On the dyno it gained 12 hp at 28, and seems seems even stronger yet at 30-31. This is all on 93 btw. After all this my tuner and I tried a little experiment the other day...drained the tank down, filled it with e85, and did a basic tune. Bottom line the car felt much snappier down low, better drivability, and performed much stronger at 30 degrees with no knock whatsoever. Might take a little more timing yet but we will get to that next week when we fine tune things. Pump and injectors are hoding fine n/a but I'll need to upgrade the pump since I'm running a 125 wet shot. According to Lonnie at Lonnie's Performance my best option for a drop in pump is to get twin 255 pumps with a better hotwire kit (currently have a single 255 and hotwire kit). He said it runs $650 for all this and it just drops right in with no modifications required. Bottom line...do you guys think it's worth it for me to convert over? I'm thinking I can make another 25-30 hp and even more tq along with better drivability. I'm sure the nitrous would respond even better. I've done a lot of searching and reading on e85 vs 93 for a n/a setup like mine, but there isn't tons of info on n/a applications, plus I would like some fresh and new opinions if possible. So let's here it...give me all your thoughts and opinions here.
Thanks
Thanks
09-05-2015, 04:07 PM
#2
You answered your own question, to me it sounds well worth it.
Just swap to a single Walbro 450. 105$ shipped and installs in no time.
It is also E85 compatible.
Depending on your injectors and how much the car sits, you need to heavily consider a stainless internal injector also. Some injectors don't play nice with E85.
35% more fuel for E85 VS gas.
Just swap to a single Walbro 450. 105$ shipped and installs in no time.
It is also E85 compatible.
Depending on your injectors and how much the car sits, you need to heavily consider a stainless internal injector also. Some injectors don't play nice with E85.
35% more fuel for E85 VS gas.
09-05-2015, 05:07 PM
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The gains are by feel but there is no doubt they are real since they are substantially noticeable, plus the car did in fact pick up 12 hp from 2 degrees more timing on 93.
Lemons, is that Walbro 450 plug and play or is there modifications needed?
Lemons, is that Walbro 450 plug and play or is there modifications needed?
09-06-2015, 09:39 AM
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The kit from Lonnie's Performance comes with the twin 255 pumps, hotwire kit, and all the modifications made so it just drops right in. I agree $650 is a lot but if it's the only direct drop in option then I might have to consider it
09-06-2015, 11:53 AM
#7
Right but I'm trying to figure out if it drops right in or if modifications need to be made, and if modifications are in fact needed what are they, how difficult are they, and how much will they cost. See what I'm saying?
The kit from Lonnie's Performance comes with the twin 255 pumps, hotwire kit, and all the modifications made so it just drops right in. I agree $650 is a lot but if it's the only direct drop in option then I might have to consider it
The kit from Lonnie's Performance comes with the twin 255 pumps, hotwire kit, and all the modifications made so it just drops right in. I agree $650 is a lot but if it's the only direct drop in option then I might have to consider it
Difficulty level? If you're at this point you should have already got your hands dirty before... I'll say 3-4?
The 450s are 105$ shipped...
You can build your own hot wire kit for the price of the wire and the relay... Or buy one.
That is all the money you would have invested.
You would save roughly 500$.
If you have absolutely no DIY skills.... Spend the 650$ for the drop in kit.
If you don't mind searching a little bit on here for a couple write ups, reading a little, and then getting to work... Save 500$ and DIY.
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09-06-2015, 02:28 PM
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On 1 450 I think you still have to trim the inner bucket just a tad. Nothing much... Won't take 5 minutes with a dremel or cutoff wheel, if that.
Difficulty level? If you're at this point you should have already got your hands dirty before... I'll say 3-4?
The 450s are 105$ shipped...
You can build your own hot wire kit for the price of the wire and the relay... Or buy one.
That is all the money you would have invested.
You would save roughly 500$.
If you have absolutely no DIY skills.... Spend the 650$ for the drop in kit.
If you don't mind searching a little bit on here for a couple write ups, reading a little, and then getting to work... Save 500$ and DIY.
Difficulty level? If you're at this point you should have already got your hands dirty before... I'll say 3-4?
The 450s are 105$ shipped...
You can build your own hot wire kit for the price of the wire and the relay... Or buy one.
That is all the money you would have invested.
You would save roughly 500$.
If you have absolutely no DIY skills.... Spend the 650$ for the drop in kit.
If you don't mind searching a little bit on here for a couple write ups, reading a little, and then getting to work... Save 500$ and DIY.
09-06-2015, 03:44 PM
#9
When adding timing it's not a linear relationship. Add 2 degrees gain 12hp, add 2 more gain nothing. Ethanol is so knock resistant you can many times add timing until you are hammering the piston at exactly tdc and beating the crank/bearings to death.
You know that more timing isn't always an indication of more power right? It's about igniting the charge so it creates maximum cylinder pressure at the correct crank angle (~15* atdc) to make the most torque or the crankshaft. It's more a measure of efficiency.
Hey it's your money and your motor. I'd suggest testing it on a dyno or at the track first.
09-06-2015, 03:55 PM
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You feeling a gain and the gain being real are mutually exclusive ideas.
When adding timing it's not a linear relationship. Add 2 degrees gain 12hp, add 2 more gain nothing. Ethanol is so knock resistant you can many times add timing until you are hammering the piston at exactly tdc and beating the crank/bearings to death.
You know that more timing isn't always an indication of more power right? It's about igniting the charge so it creates maximum cylinder pressure at the correct crank angle (~15* atdc) to make the most torque or the crankshaft. It's more a measure of efficiency.
Hey it's your money and your motor. I'd suggest testing it on a dyno or at the track first.
When adding timing it's not a linear relationship. Add 2 degrees gain 12hp, add 2 more gain nothing. Ethanol is so knock resistant you can many times add timing until you are hammering the piston at exactly tdc and beating the crank/bearings to death.
You know that more timing isn't always an indication of more power right? It's about igniting the charge so it creates maximum cylinder pressure at the correct crank angle (~15* atdc) to make the most torque or the crankshaft. It's more a measure of efficiency.
Hey it's your money and your motor. I'd suggest testing it on a dyno or at the track first.
09-06-2015, 04:23 PM
#11
Ok here's the deal...my n/a timing is at 26 degrees, but the car makes more power with more timing, but it knocks at 28 degrees. On the dyno it gained 12 hp at 28, and seems seems even stronger yet at 30-31. This is all on 93 btw. After all this my tuner and I tried a little experiment the other day...drained the tank down, filled it with e85, and did a basic tune. Bottom line the car felt much snappier down low, better drivability, and performed much stronger at 30 degrees with no knock whatsoever. Might take a little more timing yet but we will get to that next week when we fine tune things. Pump and injectors are hoding fine n/a but I'll need to upgrade the pump since I'm running a 125 wet shot. According to Lonnie at Lonnie's Performance my best option for a drop in pump is to get twin 255 pumps with a better hotwire kit (currently have a single 255 and hotwire kit). He said it runs $650 for all this and it just drops right in with no modifications required. Bottom line...do you guys think it's worth it for me to convert over? I'm thinking I can make another 25-30 hp and even more tq along with better drivability. I'm sure the nitrous would respond even better. I've done a lot of searching and reading on e85 vs 93 for a n/a setup like mine, but there isn't tons of info on n/a applications, plus I would like some fresh and new opinions if possible. So let's here it...give me all your thoughts and opinions here.
Thanks
Thanks
09-06-2015, 05:26 PM
#13
the new 5.0 guys report modest gains up top but more so in the midrange which is what I have seen as well. At a certain point the engine isnt going to want more timing at peak so even e85 wont do much in that case. however the mid range will fatten up quite a bit still so its worth it. you though will gain everywhere, not only the midrange but also top end so you ping on 93 now.
if e85 was more widely available by my house i'd run that **** all day everyday lol
if e85 was more widely available by my house i'd run that **** all day everyday lol
09-06-2015, 05:56 PM
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the new 5.0 guys report modest gains up top but more so in the midrange which is what I have seen as well. At a certain point the engine isnt going to want more timing at peak so even e85 wont do much in that case. however the mid range will fatten up quite a bit still so its worth it. you though will gain everywhere, not only the midrange but also top end so you ping on 93 now.
if e85 was more widely available by my house i'd run that **** all day everyday lol
if e85 was more widely available by my house i'd run that **** all day everyday lol
I saw an old thread on here where a cammed LS1 added E85 and 5 degrees timing and gained 30 hp and 30 tq. That's a huge difference on a n/a LS1. If I weren't able to add more timing like this I don't think it would be worth the swap but since I can, and the car seems to love it, I feel like it could be a great investment. Where else can I gain 20-30 hp at this point for a few hundred bucks lol. Plus E85 is eveywhere out here. Even my small town of about 10,000 I know of at least 3 stations that have it
09-06-2015, 07:01 PM
#17
stock casting cathedral heads routinely like 27-30 degrees topped out in my experience aftermarket casting and rectangle heads take less because the chambers are more efficient.
like lemons said above 30 degrees the top end gain isnt there simply because the motor doesnt want more. but from what I have seen thats not where e85 shines unless you absolutely cant run the timing the engine wants. I've seen 15/15 gains common in the mid range on ls3's and 5.0s but only 5-10 up top.
like lemons said above 30 degrees the top end gain isnt there simply because the motor doesnt want more. but from what I have seen thats not where e85 shines unless you absolutely cant run the timing the engine wants. I've seen 15/15 gains common in the mid range on ls3's and 5.0s but only 5-10 up top.
09-06-2015, 07:35 PM
#18
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Will the stock fuel pump be enough with bigger injectors for a bolt on car only for e85? I have plenty of e85 around me and would like to switch and spray with it also.
09-06-2015, 07:43 PM
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stock casting cathedral heads routinely like 27-30 degrees topped out in my experience aftermarket casting and rectangle heads take less because the chambers are more efficient.
like lemons said above 30 degrees the top end gain isnt there simply because the motor doesnt want more. but from what I have seen thats not where e85 shines unless you absolutely cant run the timing the engine wants. I've seen 15/15 gains common in the mid range on ls3's and 5.0s but only 5-10 up top.
like lemons said above 30 degrees the top end gain isnt there simply because the motor doesnt want more. but from what I have seen thats not where e85 shines unless you absolutely cant run the timing the engine wants. I've seen 15/15 gains common in the mid range on ls3's and 5.0s but only 5-10 up top.