docwyte

iTrader: (4)

Set up is:

'02 SS motor with 241 heads, LS6 intake, LS6 throttle body, straight shot intake, 1 7/8" shorty headers, dual 2.5" exhaust, Comp cam 224.

Motor is in my Porsche 944, I don't have the stack height to add a FAST 102 and long tube headers aren't available unless I do a bunch of custom fabrication.

Right now I make 336rwhp and 342 ft lbs of torque at the wheels. This is my road race/time trial car, so I'm not interested in running nitrous. I do drive it on the street to and from the track and around a bit, but it isn't my daily driver.

Right now I'm under powered for my class, I can make another 30-35 rwhp. I was about to buy the TSP Magic Stick 3, but in talking to them they doubted I'd make the power I'm looking for from the cam.

They felt I was too restricted on the intake and exhaust side and swapping cams or heads (I have a set of CNC ported 243 heads sitting in my garage ready to go) would make little power gains at all.

I'd really like to throw a magic stick 3 at this motor, and sell the ported 243 heads, but if I'm not going to make any more power, I need to look elsewhere.

What are the collective thoughts? Am I spinning my wheels with a different cam since I can't change my intake and exhaust?

Gordon0652

iTrader: (4)

I made 412rwhp with the MS4, full exhaust, lid, STOCK LS1 intake and threw an A4.

CamaroZ28_LS1

iTrader: (5)

Thats cool you made that, but on shorty's he prob won't make the peak power you do even though you have an AUTO and stock intake. The ported heads with a good cam combo should put the car over 400whp. There are much smaller cams putting down the 400whp range. A custom grind may be the way to go.

garygnu

a small EPS cam mite net you 390 rwhp.you will need to tune it .

zracer323

iTrader: (12)

I wouldnt't get an off-the-shelf cam if I were you. You have pretty specific needs, so someone could probably spec you a good custom cam.

Darkman

iTrader: (2)

I would do the following:

Trade-in the LS6 Intake into TPIS, Inc. for one their 90mm (re-snouted) LS6 intakes, and add a 90mm LS2 throttlebody. (TPIS also has the harness to do this).

You don't say who did your 243s, but if they are not already done full tilt have TEA, Advanced Induction, or the like, do so.

Have PatrcikG spec a custom cam that relfects your intake/exhaust limitations.

Have the new setup tuned.

180ls1

iTrader: (4)

first of all your car should be making more power then it is right now. There might be something up with it. Is your tune good and do you have an auto or manual?

You will need a cam like this one with more exhaust split to help get the exhaust gasses out. http://www.engpwrsys.com/index.php?a...od&productId=9 or the thunder cheatr v3
The ms3 will be choked too much by your exhaust.

I also would have those heads installed and milled some to get your compression up. With one of those cams and the heads you have you should see right around 400rwhp.

ae13291

iTrader: (8)

have Pat G spec you out the cam you need. port out the stock TB and that will help a bit if you are on a budget.

Damian

iTrader: (89)

This.

Gotta love the internet and their "throw parts at it" attitude.

FWIW, that engine is down on power for some reason. A completely stock internal LS1 with bolt ons makes 335-350rwhp, without a cam. Something is up. Even with shorties, a 224 will make 355-370rwhp with that setup. Who tuned it?

docwyte

iTrader: (4)

I've been hearing that a lot, that the motor should be making more power. Normally I'd more than believe that and the dyno charts I've seen seem to support that.

However I've talked to quite a few Porsche 944 LS1 swapped owners and we're all sitting around the same 340rwhp. All of us have pretty similar mods and some even have more mods than me and still have 340rwhp.

That's why I'm wondering if TSP is correct in saying that the headers are a major restriction.

I suppose I'll do a leakdown and compression test and see. I suspect it'll show all is well though.

Car got tuned locally by the guy that tunes all the American Iron and Camaro/Mustang Challenge race cars. Car is running great!

I don't need 400rwhp, I'll break out of my time trial class with that much power. I want another 30-40rwhp, so mid 360's to mid 370's. I'd like to do it with as little work and money outlay as possible...

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

First of all, kick *** avatar!

Secondly I agree the power is way down from what it should be

Again I agree.




OP you can throw all the cam you want at that motor but it will still be restricted. Get your exhaust right, I know it may cost a bit but if you can get that motor to breathe you will make easily the power you want and the drivability and durability of the top end will make up for it in the end. The bigger cam is going to be harder on the valvetrain at extended high RPM levels. In short....fix the problem instead of band-aiding it. You will be happier with the end result

Darkman

iTrader: (2)

By all means check the integrity of your current setup.

My recommendation, above, is based on my own experience with a restricted exhaust. I have an LS6 that is making over 400 rwhp using stock exhaust manifolds, high-flow catalytic converters, and a full stock catback system. In order to get above the 400 rwhp level I added: (a) a PatrickG custom cam; (b) Trick Flow 215s; (c) a FAST 102 intake w/90mm LS2 throttle body; and (d) a tune by PatrickG.

Based on my experience, I believe your exhaust restriction coupled with your limitation on intake manifolds will require more parts than be "thrown at it" than similar builds without those restrictions.

docwyte

iTrader: (4)

Ok, turns out I was wrong on the header size, they're 1 5/8" primarys, so smaller than I thought.

If there were a set of long tube headers that pretty much fit and I could do a little fab to get them to fit perfectly I'd do it. To my knowledge there aren't, which means buying a set and cutting them all to pieces to get them to fit. I don't have the skills to do that and paying someone to do that will be prohibitively expensive.

I agree that it'll take more parts on my motor vs a LS in an F body to make the same power due to my limitations on the exhaust/intake.

I can fit a FAST 90/90 most likely. I just think that most of my issues are on the exhaust side and not the intake.

Is the LS2 throttle body a cable throttle body?

How do I get in touch with PatrickG?

Damian

iTrader: (89)

1 5/8's shorties will definitely hurt power. The LS2 TB is not cable, it's DBW.

Call Geoff @ EPS and talk with him about your setup. More than likely what you need is a cam that will have the proper valve events to cater to your setup. In your case, you need a lot more exhaust duration to crutch the restriction.

disc0monkey

iTrader: (10)

can you make a restrictor plate for when you race if you go over?

docwyte

iTrader: (4)

I probably could, or I can add weight (within reason) to the car. Since it's not really my daily driver I'd rather not have to mess around with it.

I mean, if I make 380rwhp it's not the end of the world, but if I make more like 400rwhp that'll create quite an issue for me as far as trying to stay in class.

I talked with Geoff@EPS a bit ago and while he's a very nice guy, my dealings with him left me a bit cold. I ordered my cam package from him originally. He didn't tell me it'd take 3-4 weeks to get me a cam. In retrospect I should've asked, but he didn't offer up that info and I figured he'd have cams in stock. I was on a time table as the motor couldn't go in my car without the cam in it.

After 10 days I called him asking where the cam was. That's when he told me the time table. I told him that didn't work for me and asked for a refund. He then told me he'd move my order up and I'd get it sooner. 1 more week goes by, no cam.

I call him again and he tells me he's out of blanks. He then tells me he'll send me a Thunder Racing cam, but instead a Comp cam shows up and he charged me overnight shipping for it.

I get the impression he's very knowledgeable and he's very nice, but I'm not ordering from him again. If it takes 3-4 weeks to make a cam, that's something that should be known from the start. Perhaps since I'm new to the LS community that was a piece of info all you guys know, but I didn't and I should've been told that by Geoff from the get go.

Darkman

iTrader: (2)

On my LS6 with its 243 heads, RT high-flow cats and an EPS customer cam I got just under 380 rwhp. That suggest to me that you will have trouble getting to 380 rwhp with the small headers without some help from heads/intake. A FAST 90/90 would be a little better than the LS6/90. You might try the changes one at a time to make sure you don't go over.

On the other hand, knowing the real cost of horsepower with you current exhaust may help you decide to go the other route and address the exhaust issue head-on as has already been suggested by others.

docwyte

iTrader: (4)

I've also got high flow cats leading into a mandrel bent dual 2.5" exhaust. Sounds like a custom grind cam will get me around mid 360's based on your 380rwhp and 243 heads vs my 241 heads.

What do you think? That's exactly where I want to be. The Thunder Racing cheater v3 says it's made to work with cats and stock exhaust manifolds, sounds like what I need...

Darkman

iTrader: (2)

The Thunder Racing cheater v3 is quite similar to the cam I am using to deal with the stock exhaust restriction (218/230/116 LSA +2 Advance, .595/.600 lift) and should fit the bill.

Siciliano15

iTrader: (7)

for that kinda goal, a set of cleaned up 243 heads, 1.85 rockers, and a tune will get you there. look at my profile under the garage section and thats through an auto.

if u want max power a cam is the way to go and thats they way i will be going soon but if you need to be at 360-370hp then those 3 things are one way of getting there