Cam install gone wrong
08-07-2011, 11:29 PM
#21
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It sounds to me that the bolt is bottomed out in the snout at the end of the threads. Is there any room beneathe the head of the bolt and the face of the balancer??
Try to think of what the GM dealer is going to do?? Your problem is a bolt stuck in your crank snout....ok, what would anyone do to remove this bolt, really, what are your options?? Not much. Not much at all.
What Im trying to say is ask yourself, 'am I willing to pull on this thing until it breaks, cuz thats what someone else will do I take in'. Ok, so pulling on this bolt, how can you do this....as it sits strap a wrench on it and go, try to heat the bolt and crank up and sacrifice the front seal, try to freeze it and probly wreck the seal, blast a bunch of air and cleaners inside there if you can to try to clean it and then wrench on it.
If it were mine, I would start pulling. Thats just what I would do, because I know what anywhere else would do, and its usually the same thing I can do on my own in my garage and learn something from it. Good luck and let us know what happens here.
Try to think of what the GM dealer is going to do?? Your problem is a bolt stuck in your crank snout....ok, what would anyone do to remove this bolt, really, what are your options?? Not much. Not much at all.
What Im trying to say is ask yourself, 'am I willing to pull on this thing until it breaks, cuz thats what someone else will do I take in'. Ok, so pulling on this bolt, how can you do this....as it sits strap a wrench on it and go, try to heat the bolt and crank up and sacrifice the front seal, try to freeze it and probly wreck the seal, blast a bunch of air and cleaners inside there if you can to try to clean it and then wrench on it.
If it were mine, I would start pulling. Thats just what I would do, because I know what anywhere else would do, and its usually the same thing I can do on my own in my garage and learn something from it. Good luck and let us know what happens here.
08-08-2011, 04:10 PM
#22
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So I called a custom shop up here in NH and he said that he does not recommend drilling the bolt out because the heat generated by the drill might mess up the crank snout. But he said that if I backed the bolt out without breaking the head off he would run a thread-chaser down there to clean it out for me.
However, he suggested heating the bolt up with a propane torch. This kinda sounds like he's contradicting himself to me. He's suggests heating it up with a torch but wont run a drill through it???
Oh well, I know that the GM dealership is willing to drill it out and I know that plenty of you guys have drilled out the crank bolt before so I'm not sure why this custom guy won't do it. Obviously I'll have to shell out a lot of cash in labor charges at GM but I'm willing to do that in order to have this done correctly so I can finally put my new cam to use!!!
However, he suggested heating the bolt up with a propane torch. This kinda sounds like he's contradicting himself to me. He's suggests heating it up with a torch but wont run a drill through it???
Oh well, I know that the GM dealership is willing to drill it out and I know that plenty of you guys have drilled out the crank bolt before so I'm not sure why this custom guy won't do it. Obviously I'll have to shell out a lot of cash in labor charges at GM but I'm willing to do that in order to have this done correctly so I can finally put my new cam to use!!!
08-08-2011, 06:20 PM
#25
Nowhere in this thread do you say if the engine is in or out of the car. I hope it's out!
NOBODY should be using the threads in the crank to turn in a bolt to pull on the damper. The pressures needed are tremendous. This is why they make balancer installers. Even the inexpensive/simple one linked to at Byun Speed threads relies on an external nut, not the threads within the crank.
Using the bolt is just asking for a new crankshaft.
Invest in a decent balancer installer. It'll fit several different engines and utilizes a huge nut to turn and a bearing to reduce the torque needed.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-4920/?rtype=10
NOBODY should be using the threads in the crank to turn in a bolt to pull on the damper. The pressures needed are tremendous. This is why they make balancer installers. Even the inexpensive/simple one linked to at Byun Speed threads relies on an external nut, not the threads within the crank.
Using the bolt is just asking for a new crankshaft.
Invest in a decent balancer installer. It'll fit several different engines and utilizes a huge nut to turn and a bearing to reduce the torque needed.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-4920/?rtype=10
08-08-2011, 06:44 PM
#26
That web site and its methods are the cause of a lot of guys ending up in your situation. Bottom line, the crank threads are damaged.
If you have AAA Gold, you can try to get it down to Slowhawk in Fairwater, MA. Not sure he will take it on though you would need to contact him. He does tuning as well so you may be able to kill two birds with one stone. If you don't have AAA, rent a trailer (full chassis) from somewhere and tow it down. If you are not familiar and don't have the tools you could end up with bigger issues then you currently have.
If you have AAA Gold, you can try to get it down to Slowhawk in Fairwater, MA. Not sure he will take it on though you would need to contact him. He does tuning as well so you may be able to kill two birds with one stone. If you don't have AAA, rent a trailer (full chassis) from somewhere and tow it down. If you are not familiar and don't have the tools you could end up with bigger issues then you currently have.
08-08-2011, 07:04 PM
#27
The custom shop who said drilling would cause heat and mess up the crank have no clue what they're talking about. Heating the bolt with a torch will make it expand and even tighter in the crank.
AND, unless you bolt on a drill press that will drill dead center through the entire bolt, a drill bit on a handheld drill will always wander off center and hit the threads damaging the crank.
Your only hope is to turn out the bolt, run a long bottoming tap into the crank to freshen up the threads and finish installing the damper with the proper tool. If the bolt snaps in the crank, you'll probably need a new crank.
AND, unless you bolt on a drill press that will drill dead center through the entire bolt, a drill bit on a handheld drill will always wander off center and hit the threads damaging the crank.
Your only hope is to turn out the bolt, run a long bottoming tap into the crank to freshen up the threads and finish installing the damper with the proper tool. If the bolt snaps in the crank, you'll probably need a new crank.
08-11-2011, 06:58 PM
#28
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So I finally got down to my last option since I couldn't drill the bolt out and tap the threads myself (and I was pretty confident that using an impact tool would just snap the head off and leave me in the same position).
The car is at GM. I basically told the guy that there is no way I'm buying a new crank from you, so it's in your best interest to not mess it up. He said he was concerning about being able to drill a hole dead center on the bolt but I told him to just take off the front bumper and AC condenser and there shouldn't be a problem.
I really hope this works because I had no other option and I'm sure they will do a better job than I ever could. Wish me luck.
The car is at GM. I basically told the guy that there is no way I'm buying a new crank from you, so it's in your best interest to not mess it up. He said he was concerning about being able to drill a hole dead center on the bolt but I told him to just take off the front bumper and AC condenser and there shouldn't be a problem.
I really hope this works because I had no other option and I'm sure they will do a better job than I ever could. Wish me luck.
08-13-2011, 11:41 AM
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I talked to the dealership yesterday and the mechanic said that he got the bolt out without drilling it because the threads just let go after a while. He said it looked like NAPA gave me the wrong size bolt and it just cleaned out the threads as it went in. So he said he couldn't retap the threads since he would have to go bigger and he's afraid that the tap would break because of the snout being made of such a hardened metal.
Instead, he is using an epoxy kit that he has heard good things about ($75 including install). He said it is good up to 120 ft/lbs and he can't see why it wouldn't hold the bolt. I should be able to pick the car up by Monday so I'm getting a little antsy.
Instead, he is using an epoxy kit that he has heard good things about ($75 including install). He said it is good up to 120 ft/lbs and he can't see why it wouldn't hold the bolt. I should be able to pick the car up by Monday so I'm getting a little antsy.
08-13-2011, 02:13 PM
#34
Not really, you torque the OLD bolt to that but that is just to make sure the pulley is fully seated. I hate torquing a bolt that much so I usually heat the hub of the pulley and it just falls right on and bottoms out, then after you just follow the rest of the gm procedure which states to torque the new bolt down to 40ft lbs and be done with it.
08-13-2011, 04:07 PM
#36
OK, so the crank has no threads left in it. As it wasn't drilled out, the hole is still dead center of the crank-which is pretty much impossible to achieve when drilling out a bolt.
Drill and tap to the next size bolt. BUT WAIT, whatever the drill size is, drill the hole with every larger size starting at the current hole size. This will assure the hole drilled will remain perfectly centered in the crank. Drill slow and use spray oil.
Be aware that beyond the length of the bolt, there will be original good threads in the crank. You'll need to drill through them also.
And for beer's sake, get the proper balancer installation tool.
Drill and tap to the next size bolt. BUT WAIT, whatever the drill size is, drill the hole with every larger size starting at the current hole size. This will assure the hole drilled will remain perfectly centered in the crank. Drill slow and use spray oil.
Be aware that beyond the length of the bolt, there will be original good threads in the crank. You'll need to drill through them also.
And for beer's sake, get the proper balancer installation tool.
08-13-2011, 05:09 PM
#37
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Not really, you torque the OLD bolt to that but that is just to make sure the pulley is fully seated. I hate torquing a bolt that much so I usually heat the hub of the pulley and it just falls right on and bottoms out, then after you just follow the rest of the gm procedure which states to torque the new bolt down to 40ft lbs and be done with it.
08-13-2011, 11:44 PM
#39
I think it's because people just don't know. You have sites that LS1howto or whatever it is telling people it's ok to do it this way.
As mentioned earlier in this thread I would like to see them either change it or delete it completely. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there with messed up crankshafts because of their site.
08-15-2011, 11:02 AM
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Finally some good news!! So I talked with GM today and we decided not to do the epoxy kit...and they aren't charging me at all for getting the bolt out. Thank god I didn't have another horror story to tell you guys.
But the best news is that he referred me to a speed shop about half an hour south of here that apparently does all the work on custom drag and race cars up here in the valley. I talked to him a few minutes ago and he doesn't think he should have any problem with the car.
He said there are two options. Either he can use a helicoil on the crank or he can just tap it to a larger bolt size. He said that he will most likely try the helicoil so that I can keep the stock bolt size....You guys think that's the best option?
But the best news is that he referred me to a speed shop about half an hour south of here that apparently does all the work on custom drag and race cars up here in the valley. I talked to him a few minutes ago and he doesn't think he should have any problem with the car.
He said there are two options. Either he can use a helicoil on the crank or he can just tap it to a larger bolt size. He said that he will most likely try the helicoil so that I can keep the stock bolt size....You guys think that's the best option?