Cam install gone wrong
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Teching In
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 9
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Cam install gone wrong So over the last couple weeks me and a couple buddies have been installing a Torquer v2 in my '04. We followed the ls1howto guide, checking and rechecking every minor detail and we got 99% of the way and it seems like this is as far as we are gonna go without professional help.
We started putting the pulley back on with the longer crank bolt and got it seated most of the way (about 1/2" as it suggested). Then we pulled the long bolt out and threaded in the old stock bolt. However, it wouldnt pull the pulley on any farther. So we put the longer bolt back in and pulled it a bit farther but the bolt got stuck. We tried pulling it back out and its not coming. Rather than torquing it more we stopped so that we didnt break the head off.
At this point I am ready to take it to a shop because I don't want to break the bolt off then have to replace the crank. I am thinking of bringing it to the GM dealership because I don't know of any reputable shops near me. However, I am afraid they are going to tell me I need a new crank even if they can fix it another way (ie: bore and tap).
So I need some advice from guys that have broken off this bolt or just some general advice on where I should go from here. Do you think that the longer bolt stripped the threads on the inside?
Any help would be great.
We started putting the pulley back on with the longer crank bolt and got it seated most of the way (about 1/2" as it suggested). Then we pulled the long bolt out and threaded in the old stock bolt. However, it wouldnt pull the pulley on any farther. So we put the longer bolt back in and pulled it a bit farther but the bolt got stuck. We tried pulling it back out and its not coming. Rather than torquing it more we stopped so that we didnt break the head off.
At this point I am ready to take it to a shop because I don't want to break the bolt off then have to replace the crank. I am thinking of bringing it to the GM dealership because I don't know of any reputable shops near me. However, I am afraid they are going to tell me I need a new crank even if they can fix it another way (ie: bore and tap).
So I need some advice from guys that have broken off this bolt or just some general advice on where I should go from here. Do you think that the longer bolt stripped the threads on the inside?
Any help would be great.
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2007
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only thing i can suggest is,if you get the bolt out ,get some metric all thread rod ,the same size of the bolt threads.screw the all thread all the way in the crank.put neverseize on the threads first.put the pulley in the oven at 250 degrees for an hour.then slide the pulley on straight ,and drive it on with some washers stacked and a nut on top.drive it on with a compressor and a impact.it worked perfect for me.my compressor only pumps to 100 lbs.and it went on very easy.
I doubt it was stripped providing you used the correct thread size, I bet there just streched. I had a hard time getting mine out too because it was so damn tight and bottomed out in the crank. I also didn't have a hex head on the end of the bolt, it was just threaded rod with a nut/washer and nothing to grab onto. I LIGHTLY tapped on the bolt with a hammer all around it and I got it to free up.
I wouldn't do it again without something a nut on the end welded on. Or grind down the threads on two sides for something to grab.
Edit: nevermind, I see you said you have a head on the end. That sucks!
I wouldn't do it again without something a nut on the end welded on. Or grind down the threads on two sides for something to grab.
Edit: nevermind, I see you said you have a head on the end. That sucks!
Okay same thing happened to me a few months ago and as crazy as it sounds here is what I read to do and did and have had no problem since doing it 5k miles ago.
Okay first we broke the bolt off into the crankshaft. Then I ordered a taper tap and a bottoming tap (not expensive) and threaded the front part of the crankshaft and then ordered a new shorter but fatter bolt and then tightened it all up and I check it every so often and it remains tight!
Okay first we broke the bolt off into the crankshaft. Then I ordered a taper tap and a bottoming tap (not expensive) and threaded the front part of the crankshaft and then ordered a new shorter but fatter bolt and then tightened it all up and I check it every so often and it remains tight!
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: south dakota
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Con you put a torque wrench on the bolt and see how much it reads when you are attempting to remove it?
I would break the bolt off in the crank and pull off the pulley and try to drill it out and retap and clean up the thread before i brought it to a GM dealer for work.
I would break the bolt off in the crank and pull off the pulley and try to drill it out and retap and clean up the thread before i brought it to a GM dealer for work.
Last edited by Warren S; Aug 5, 2011 at 07:37 AM.
I agree. A lot of people follow that and don't know any better. I'm sure this is some sort of disclaimer on their website saying if you follow their directions and screw it up they aren't responsible.
I broke mine years ago here is the thread from it. A lot of advice in here I ended up getting it out check post 35 to see how I did it. I would suggest reading it all though because there are a few methods from a number of people.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/783859-crank-bolt-broke-removal-now-what.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/783859-crank-bolt-broke-removal-now-what.html
During your cam swap did you change the timing set and notice if there was anything different between the new and old stuff?? How about oil pump drive, was that all the same?? Did you leave your timing cover a bit loose when trying to pull the balancer on?? I have an old balancer that I honed out a bit so I can hand install it and center the timing cover.
Are you sure you are bottoming out any sort of spacer or washer you used with the face of the crank snout??
Was there anything in the hole before you installed the balancer?? Those threads need to be clean in there.
If you can, try tapping on the end of the bolt with a hammer. If you can, spray some fluid film in there if you can to try to clean it up if its dirty. I bet that bolt comes out if you eff with it enough.
Are you sure you are bottoming out any sort of spacer or washer you used with the face of the crank snout??
Was there anything in the hole before you installed the balancer?? Those threads need to be clean in there.
If you can, try tapping on the end of the bolt with a hammer. If you can, spray some fluid film in there if you can to try to clean it up if its dirty. I bet that bolt comes out if you eff with it enough.
Last edited by cutlass_455; Aug 6, 2011 at 10:37 PM.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2011
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Unfortunately I'm in northern NH for the summer, which is where I did the install. I have gone to a number of shops recommended by the local NAPA and no one wants to mess with it. I guess that's what happens when you're out in the middle of nowhere with no high quality speed shops within an hour.
The only place that is willing to work on it is the GM dealership. I know they are going to try to screw me over and sell me on a new crank but I'm not falling for that BS. I don't want to try to get the bolt out then tap the crank snout myself because I definitely don't have enough experience to pull that off. I think I am just going to have them finish the reassembly and start it up to make sure the oil pressure and everything else is right.
I have a feeling that the reason the bolt is stuck is not just because it bottomed out but because when I bottomed out the first long bolt we got it out and the bottom threads were stripped (I assume from putting extra threads in the back of the crank snout) so there were were some metal shavings in the snout. I used a magnet and thought I cleaned them all out but I guess I didn't. Could this be the reason it's stuck in there? And if it is, is there any hope in getting it out?
The only place that is willing to work on it is the GM dealership. I know they are going to try to screw me over and sell me on a new crank but I'm not falling for that BS. I don't want to try to get the bolt out then tap the crank snout myself because I definitely don't have enough experience to pull that off. I think I am just going to have them finish the reassembly and start it up to make sure the oil pressure and everything else is right.
I have a feeling that the reason the bolt is stuck is not just because it bottomed out but because when I bottomed out the first long bolt we got it out and the bottom threads were stripped (I assume from putting extra threads in the back of the crank snout) so there were were some metal shavings in the snout. I used a magnet and thought I cleaned them all out but I guess I didn't. Could this be the reason it's stuck in there? And if it is, is there any hope in getting it out?
lol this exactly. you need a threaded rod tool to re-install the pulley man. I had the same thing happen to me luckily i got the bolt out, ran a thread chaser and slapped my arp bolt in.
I recently did a cam install on my Camaro, what I did to install the balancer is heat the pulley inlet with a propane torch (you can buy one at Home Depot/Hardware store for around $20) and use some computer keyboard duster C02 to freeze the crank. The pulley doesn't need to be screaming hot or anything, I heated mine for MAYBE 45 seconds and then sprayed the crank with the can of keyboard duster gas flipped upside down for just a couple seconds. The pulley slid right on by hand. You have to work quickly but it worked like a charm for me.
Thanks .....
In reference to the OP, your location and the situation I would say give it a shot. If I were in your shoes I would make sure the crank is locked solidly in place. No movement what's so ever! Use a good size breaker bar so you have a good feel of what the bolt is doing. No point in trying to bust it loose with any movement felt. This way you can feel what the bolt is doing.
Some might not agree with this but if done right it would save you problems later, if the bolt dose brake on you. I would drill a small pilot hole in the head of the bolt now. ie .030-.040. as deep and straight as you can go. So if the bolt dose brake you have a clean straight hole to step up for a chance at drilling it bigger for a easy-out which I dought would work if it dose brake. But at least there will be the clean straight hole to step up little by little. Vs trying to do it with what is left deep in the crank. With the head still left you will have a much better chance to drill a clean straight hole.
Its a tough call on your part. The hardest part is going to getting the bolt out, after that the other issues are minor. There are plenty of options for damage threads.
At least you will have the stisfaction of repairing it vs someone else.
In reference to the OP, your location and the situation I would say give it a shot. If I were in your shoes I would make sure the crank is locked solidly in place. No movement what's so ever! Use a good size breaker bar so you have a good feel of what the bolt is doing. No point in trying to bust it loose with any movement felt. This way you can feel what the bolt is doing.
Some might not agree with this but if done right it would save you problems later, if the bolt dose brake on you. I would drill a small pilot hole in the head of the bolt now. ie .030-.040. as deep and straight as you can go. So if the bolt dose brake you have a clean straight hole to step up for a chance at drilling it bigger for a easy-out which I dought would work if it dose brake. But at least there will be the clean straight hole to step up little by little. Vs trying to do it with what is left deep in the crank. With the head still left you will have a much better chance to drill a clean straight hole.
Its a tough call on your part. The hardest part is going to getting the bolt out, after that the other issues are minor. There are plenty of options for damage threads.
At least you will have the stisfaction of repairing it vs someone else.
As far as re-threading the crank snout. I had never done anything like it before but let me tell you it was very simple and maybe took an hour! But either way good luck! I've been there.