snyousef

iTrader: (11)

Installed my heads yesterday and I ran into an issue with one of the head stud nuts, when doing the final torque value (did it in 3 steps) the number 10 nut in the sequence of the passenger side head lost force and kept turning never reaching the final torque value. Since they are studs I'm assuming the nut itself or threads on the stud stripped and not the block....I wasn't sure what to do so I just left it alone. But now I'm thinking the block actually stripped because it appeared the stud began moving up as the nut turned.

Not sure what to do, I left it alone in fear of causing more damage. If its the stud or nut that stripped do I have to pull the complete head off and replace all the studs and gasket even though the car has not been ran or anything? The motor is just sitting on a stand. Or can I just replace the stripped stud/nut and torque without having to re-torque everything all over again?

If the block stripped, how should I proceed? Would I be able to reuse the studs and gasket or do I have to get new ones?

I finally got the heads on and at this point I don't want to have to pull the head completely off but if it's a must I will. I'm guessing since I have not run the motor that I will be able to reuse the stud kit and gasket for that head? Gasket is a GM MLS by the way.

Any input would help, also whats the first thing I should do now? I'm not sure how to proceed as I don't want to cause anymore damage then what's already done.

sreve

iTrader: (3)

Yank the head, toss the gasket and confirm what you already know.
Call machine shop while your sitting down.

snyousef

iTrader: (11)

I have a friend who works at a machine shop but the don't work on motors but he said he can drill it and put in a helix-coil if that's what I need. Basically he can do whatever I need but needs direction from me.

Basically the gasket is useless after I pull the head? Are the head studs useless as well or can I reuse them even after torquing them?

I'm going to go pull that stud in a bit and see. Thanks for your input.

mlmedina26

Basically what sreve said, just pull the head and see what the issue is. Being a hardened steel stud you probably stripped the threads in the block.

sreve

iTrader: (3)

Keen zert would be better. The head bolts pull from the bottom and are quite long
it might be a problem. Head gaskets crush once. You know that aluminum block did
not pull the threads off an ARP stud.

snyousef

iTrader: (11)

Just pulled that stud and nut out of the block. Good news it appears the nut stripped on the stud, it won't go past half way down the stud, I just contacted the vendor for a replacement.

My questions is now can I throw in the replacement and torque it down by itself or do I have to pull the head get a new gasket and redo the process of installing the head?

sreve

iTrader: (3)

Drop your tools now and go buy lottery tickets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

snyousef

iTrader: (11)

It appears something was wrong with the nut or stud itself.....fwiw they are not ARP and studs, it's the alper motorsports stud kit.

It appears some of the threads on the stud were slightly imperfect, I was just able to get the nut all the way down the stud with my hands but at a point in the middle it got stuck and needed some force.

snyousef

iTrader: (11)

I know right too bad I'm not a betting man, I'm the luckiest dog in the world right now....you don't understand how happy I am to know it's not the block holy **** I couldn't sleep last night hahaha.

So can i just put the new stud in and torque it? I'm guessing it will be ok right?

S10xGN

iTrader: (11)

I don't have a head torque chart in front of me, tell me you're not trying to torque the 8mm upper row to the same value as the 11mm studs?

snyousef

iTrader: (11)

No I am not, the 8mm upper studs are number 11-15 (torqued to a final value of 25ft-lbs). The stud that this happened to is number 10, it is the left most stud in the center row and happens to be the one on the back of the motor for the passenger side head. Like I said it only happened to one stud, all the others were fine and it appears this stud has slightly damaged threads which I believe caused this.

Here's the diagram I am using for reference


My only dilemma now is, if it's ok to just replace this one stud and torque it down or do I have to do the complete torquing sequence all over again?

64post

iTrader: (5)

Beware of offshore $69 stud kits from ebay etc. Real poor quality copies of ARP studs. If you're on a budget stock GM or equivelant bolts work, They stretch (torque to yeild) and apply steady clamping force, use them once and then toss em. Less money than junk studs that don't work

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

People are pushing 15# and 700+Rw with those ebay junk ones... The FI budget guys swear by them.

I went ARP but if I did it over, I'd probably go ebay.

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

Replace the one stud, re-tighten to final torque then re-check the rest. Should be fine. One thing I did on mine was re-tighten after two heat cycles but most don't do this.

Jontall

Somehow I just knew they weren't ARP studs. You get what you pay for. You better start looking around for a replacement hood, because when your heads blow-off and go through it you'll need one.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

And herein lies the problem.

Here's what you could do and what could happen:

-Replace the one stud. This takes a big chance that the head gasket would hold. And also takes a big chance with fasteners that are obviously inferior.

-Pull the head, replace the gasket and re-install using ARP head studs. Do both sides. Sleep way better at night.

When doing engine work like this, wouldn't it make sense to do it right the first time? If your options are do it now with cheap components or waiting to have enough money to do it with proper components, you just wait.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

BTW, not trying to be a wise guy but this was your fault. The first rule of engine work is everything must be perfect. The threads on this stud had damage yet you used it anyway.

I'd also agree that you are very lucky it wasn't the block threads.

snyousef

iTrader: (11)

Okay thanks. I have a replacement on the way.

And you felt the need to post this why?

I agree with your mindset. Yes I was lucky it wasn't the block threads, but I did not know the stud was damaged till after the fact when I just pulled it. I would not have put it in if it was damaged from the get go, **** I would not ahve put any of them in and returned them instead. I did what I thought was a thorough inspection of them but this is so small it's hard to see.

FWIW I did not buy these on ebay, I wasn't in this to cheap out on things. I'm ***** deep in this swap already, another few hundred bucks wouldn't hurt my pocket but I decided to spend it elsewhere at the time. You can check out my build thread, I didn't cheap out on anything. I thought these were a quality alternative from all the good reviews (yes I know the price is extremely less then ARP, but ARP prices keep climbing every year for what seems like no reason). Seems like I should not have put faith in those reviews and should have stuck with the "you get what you pay" for mindset and bought the proven parts. I did find a case where a buyer had his damaged during shipping.....you live and you learn and it is my fault if some damage happens to occur. I didn't mean to be cheap at the time but I guess I was, it would have been much better to just wait for the next payday but I was starting to rush all the buying in order to get things going. I need to slow down and take a second thought next time.

If I can't sleep at night or I even think there is the slightest issue with these I'll pull the heads and start over with the ARP studs.

If I do pull the heads, I'm guessing I will have to replace the GM MLS gasket since it's already been compressed once?

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

Personally, I would. It's not worth the cost of the gaskets to risk having to take it apart again. If it were an easier job (like valve cover) I would risk it because swapping the part later isn't much work. Heads are a lot of work.

TurboMonte100

iTrader: (1)

I just installed a set of studs from Alpers Motorsports ($65) and they worked and torqued down fine. I would have no problem reusing the head gaskets, heck Denmah with the Fairmount swears that he has reused his 3 and 4 times after running them.